Anchors. The YM article on these...........

[Becky]

the Testers missed out the fisherman.

Shame really as I have one, a big one too, in my shed, along with the CQR HWMBO has replaced with two new Spades.

Funnily enough, the CQR they tested didn't seem to work at all, and yet I have sailed for @# years using a CQR and not noticed this problem. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Do any of you use these hoop-style anchors, some of those seem excellent, until you want to stow it.

Comment this morning about not enough boaty threads; well this one is, will it suffice? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As an aside, how many of you anchor these days, anyway?

We were away 2 months this summer, and only anchored twice! Everywhere else there were buoys, or we went into a marina. (Nearer the shops/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Trouble is we have 90 miles of huge chain in the bow, and the Testers used 20 m of chain and some nylon rope. Have we got it wrong again? Comments on that welcome.

 

[ChrisE]

For a start. There's 65 opinions here.

You ask how many people anchor these days, we do whenever we can, not because we don't like harbours and marinas but because we like anchoring more. It is a problem on the S. Coast that the majority of what used to be safe anchorages are now marinas or littered with moorings. This means that we are at the mercy of the prevaliing winds as to whether it is sensible to anchor but given the choice down goes the hook.

 

[steve_cronin]

Loved your \"typo\"

"Morina" - beautiful - no doubt a place for weekenders and people who daren't spend a night away from the electricity and the showers.

As to suggesting that not many are anchoring these days, I for one use my anchor EVERY time I moor up. Simply because, like an ever increasing number of converts to sanity and economic viability, I sail in the eastern Med.

For me the article was revealing but I have to say that like Paul Gelder (did you read his related editorial?) but not with such potentially disasterous consequences, I have experience with trying to use a Fortress in a changing wind or tidal pattern. We dragged all the way from Newtown River entrance to Yarmouth around ten years ago on our previous boat when we put the Fortress down as a lunch-stop anchor to watch the RTI race go by. It held for only a short time and then just skitted over the bed, unable to get a grip due to it's lack of weight. Dropping the CQR brought us up abruptly in a few seconds.

However, now that we need a lighter stern anchor than our current 20kg Britany, I will be changing this for a 9.5kg Fortress asap simply because, like the tests found, it is great with a constant and straight pull. Just what it gets as a "keep - you - off - the - quay" bows-to mooring anchor.

just goes to show that there is no such thing as a universally suitable anchor.

Steve Cronin

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

No. you haven't got it wrong, but you need to understand how product development works.

In order to be able to sell the new fangled designs to people who have been quite satisfied with the old version for donkeys years they need to prove how superior the new model is (even if it isn't). Therefore it is necessary for your old CQR to progressively become more and more crap until it performs as it did in the test (which of course must be correct because, as everyone who owns a Spade knows, CQRs never dig in).

By the same token my lovely old Merc must be a total heap of junk.

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
By the same token my lovely old Merc must be a total heap of junk.

[/ QUOTE ]

It must be if you use it as your anchor!!

 

[fireball]

In answer to your questions ....


Not as much as I'd like ... but then tied up in a marina means I get a good night sleep!!
Only had one anchor trip and that was the previous boat when a sailing dinghy tripped it with his rudder (pulled his rudder off as well) at East Head on a spring ebb ... Less chain than perhaps we should have ...

We only have 10m of chain - the rest is rope - just reflects the sort of anchoring we do - I'm not going to pullup 60 miles of chain for the sheer hell of it!

 

[ChrisE]

But the fact of the matter is that designs evolve and they can be better.

I speak as one who has tried about a dozen anchors in his time and now have a Spade and Fortress 'cos they work better than anything else I have tried on my boat using my anchoring technique. And I used a CQR for 10 years and believed it to be wonderful, we never dragged but on some terrains took up to a dozen attempts to get it to stick or never got it to stick at all. Chuck the Spade over the side and it sticks, period.

Bit like my old Landrover that does the job but nothing like as well as my new Discovery.

 

[Gunfleet]

I carried a fisherman's anchor around for years. It bruised my knees, forearms, shins, elbows and feet. It came apart but not much. It was like trying to stow 'educating archie' in a locker - some bit was always sticking out. Eventually I carried it around lashed to the pushpit, where it reigned for years bruising my knees, forearms, shins, elbows and feet. I anchored with it twice. Each time it clattered the topsides as I raised it. I have a Danforth lashed to the pushpit as my second anchor now. Some other poor sod is struggling with the fisherman. Good riddance.

 

[flaming]

Am I the only person not supprised by the poor rating of the CQR?
I've used them on a variety of boats in a variety of bottoms. In mud in Newtown creek it seemed to work fine, but in sand I've never been satisfied, especially in harder sand where it just folded up and skidded across the surface. I was quite shocked to see that when I snorkled on it!

In contrast the Delta on the last boat I sailed in warmer climes just dug in first time every time, and after a few revs in astern was usually not visible. Never had a problem in mud either, only a slightly rocky bottom in Ireland caused a problem.
Can't comment on the spade and the rest, as not used them.

 

[Sans Bateau]

[ QUOTE ]
HWMBO has replaced with two new Spades.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chalky and Winston? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Blueboatman]

Anchoring is still popular in hot climes because you get a breeze and less chance of cockroaches walking aboard(though Palmettos fly)

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Yes, agreed. I'll be replacing my CQR with a Spade next time we go cruising. It would be daft not to.

But just because something better has come along it doesn't make the old model rubbish. It's still a good anchor. I think the test would have been more useful if it had shown some typical results for the CQR (by using more chain or one anchorage with a different bottom or whatever was required to make it work as we know it can) and that would give a benchmark for comparing the others.

 

[Robin]

To answer the aside first, we anchor a lot and especially in Southern Brittany where I believe you were this summer yet only anchored twice! We were there for 5 weeks and used a marina just 4 times, the beauty of the area is surely outside of the harbours and most notably in the (mostly) mooring and (definitely) marina free offshore islands.

Like you we have used a CQR for many years in all sorts of conditions without problems. We also carried a fisherman when Noah belonged to the club but never found relaxed sleep with it, it occasionally got used to stop us swinging and losing the telly picture though. We had a Danforth (post Noah but pre Caesar) which was OK and the only one that fitted that boat's anchor well. Nowadays we have a tried and very trusted Delta which is easier to set than the CQR (which was never that difficult) and which thus far we have always set without problems first time and holding with full reverse eventually from a 44hp Yanmar. We also carry a CQR and a Fortress but then we carry a lot of other stuff we rarely use as well.

Maybe if you ditch the Spades and try a Delta next time you go to Southern Brittany you might have confidence to try the anchorages!

Relax Hylas et al that was a JOKE, almost.... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[hylass]

Some comments

<span style="colorurple"> Isn’t it time we looked seriously at the claims of the “new generation” </span>

I believe YES, YES, YES

<span style="colorurple"> The results surprised even the experts.. </span>

Interesting.. I'm shurely not an expert as Ihave not been surprised at all /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

<span style="colorurple"> The BRUCE “ it was developed to secure oilrigs to the ocean floor” </span>

No, No and No, It was developed by the same guy (Peter Bruce) who also draws anchors to secure oilrigs to the ocean floor. But they are completely different models:

<span style="colorurple"> We were surprised that it was one of the worse performers in our tests.. </span>

I’m not.. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<span style="colorurple"> CQR – we were surprised that, during the first three tests at 5:1 scope it failed to set – no matter how slow we went</span>

It has been more than ten years now, that I’m saying that the penetration characteristics of the CQR are wrong.. (mostly on hard sea bottoms)

<span style="colorurple"> Rocna: on the second 5:1 pull, it release suddenly !!! awkward to stow!.. </span>

Perhaps it could be wise to wait a little bit for some longer experience to see what could happen??

It is also interesting to consider that the 15 kg Rocna has a blade surface area of 1030 sq cm compared to the 800 sq cm of the Spade (which did better) or a surface increase of 28.75%

<span style="colorurple"> Hydrobubble: </span>

I’ve been surprised by the good results of this light non ballasted anchor.. No explanation /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

<span style="colorurple"> Fortress: </span>

I’m not surprised at all by the impressive results. At the beginning of the test, they say that the size of the anchors has been selected to fit a 35/40’ boat. If you look at the Fortress Web site, for a 35/40 boat, they suggest a FX 16 model - equivalent to a steel anchor of 14/18 kg - that’s the range of other tested steel anchor.

The Fortress used for the test was a FX 37 suggested for boats up to 46 – 51” AND WHICH REPLACE 33/50 lbs steel anchors.. MUCH MUCH bigger than all steel anchors tested – TWO SIZES- not surprising that the results have been better!!!.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<span style="colorurple"> Bulwagga </span>

I believe this is a good anchor but on this tests I didn’t not perform impressively..

<span style="colorurple"> XYZ: </span>

On its first test on “practical Sailor” magazine it did perform impressively.. but has been very poor on this one. Apparently, it didn’t like hard bottoms?

 

[ChrisE]

I think I can see where you are coming from.

However, I thought that the tests were carried out in a uniform manner. OK, they didn't try every type of terrain but as far as I could see it was a uniform test of each anchor. It may have been that the terrains suited some anchors better than others but life then there are few things in life that are completely fair.

FWIW, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this debate doesn't go the same way as the AWB v MAB debate about 10 years ago, the GPS v traditional techniques debate about 5 years ago and the current chart plotting v. paper chart debate. We will wonder what the fuss was all about once the majority have moved over to the new.

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Re: Some comments

Cancel my order for a Spade, I'll have a Delta instead.

 

[steve_cronin]

Yes it's a heap of junk and in these environmentally aware times you ought to be ashamed to even admit to polluting the environment by using it. Who do you think you are? An exempt chinese official or something?

ALL so called "classic cars" should be crushed, like poisoning lawn mowers, chain saws and brush cutters.

You know sometimes I even astound myself at the total amount of 6o11ox I can spout if I try. I must be getting influenced from all this sort of stuff filtering down from on high.

Don't give it a thought mate! Until the Chinese do something, our little efforts are nothing more than tokenism - AND tokenism that could cripple our economy not to mention advance the interests of a cruel regeime and both at very little effect for good.

As it happens, just to try it out, the tester at the garage where we had the MoT done on one of our 1973 MGs put the hydrocarbons sensor up it's exhaust pipe (it's actually exempt from emission testing on age) and found the reading to be very low and well within MoT limits. We put this down to a small, healthy, lightly stressed engine and a well adjusted fuel system.

Now: how did we get off anchors?

Steve Cronin

 

[steve_cronin]

Only thing I don\'t like about a Delta...

...is that if it gets fouled on a chain, pulling it up sets it firmly sitting on it's backside with it's shank in the air (well water of course!). This makes recovery by getting a chum or heavy chain loop over it and down to the crown and then lifting free, totally impossible. With a CQR, the heavy shank can fall down pulling over the head which DOES allow a rescue device to get beyond the chain and swivel and give you a chance of recovery.

We tried to help two Sunsail bareboat yachts last year who were totally "hooked" on a chain in Frikes harbour on Deltas after we had sucessfully freed ourselves from the same chain fouling our CQR. There was no way to get their anchors to fall over.

I had contact details for their local office who in turn diverted one of their flotilla leaders with diving gear to their aid.

Steve Cronin

 

[Lee_Shaw]

1spade, 1 fisehrman and 1 cqr should have most sitautions licked no?

I've got 1 cqr, 1 massive fisherman and 1 normal fisherman. From what I've followed of the debate I might have trouble anchoring in sand.

 

[hylass]

Re: Some comments

[ QUOTE ]
Cancel my order for a Spade, I'll have a Delta instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is YOUR problem only..

As I don't have anymore relation with Spade.. I DON'T CARE.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif