Anchors (I know I know)

[Whitelighter]

I have a Bruce on Seralia which I'm not a huge fan of.
I have had a succession of Lewmar Delta anchors on various boats and I've always been quite happy with them, though I accept things have moved on.

What I can't understand is that my boat currently has a 18kg Bruce. Lewmar reckoned a 20kg Delta, which sound right as my mid 30ft sports boats have had 8-10kg anchors.

So why do rocna recommend a 40kg anchor? Twice as heavy?? I could accept a 25kg but the 33kg/40kg are double the cost. When a 20kg delta works is the rocna bad at holding it needs the extra weight?

Boat is 15m/23500kg ish

 

[vas]

reading various anchor threads atm and going through a thread recommended by Hardmy on another thread today in cruisersforum
Seems that Lewmar grossly underspecify sizes. So for the 15m of Seralia you shouldn't be on less than a 30something kg Delta, or a 27kg Ultra, or a 25kg Mantus.
I'm balancing between a 460euro 20kg Mantus and 280euro 20kg Delta. Just need to find local prices and check bowroller to windlass distance to make sure these monsters fit. (MiToS is 43ft and 12tons, currently on a 15kg bruce copy and the chaincounter on my desk and NOT on the boat, working on it though...)

cheers

V.

 

[Bandit]

I would have thought 40kg overkill my Mobo 18.5t 48ft I use a Delta 20kg which feels about right.

Perhaps for yours a 20kg or 25kg maybe 32kg at a push.

If your windlass ever packs up you would never recover a 40kg anchor with the appropriate sized chain by hand.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

reading various anchor threads atm and going through a thread recommended by Hardmy on another thread today in cruisersforum
Seems that Lewmar grossly underspecify sizes. So for the 15m of Seralia you shouldn't be on less than a 30something kg Delta, or a 27kg Ultra, or a 25kg Mantus.
I'm balancing between a 460euro 20kg Mantus and 280euro 20kg Delta. Just need to find local prices and check bowroller to windlass distance to make sure these monsters fit. (MiToS is 43ft and 12tons, currently on a 15kg bruce copy and the chaincounter on my desk and NOT on the boat, working on it though...)

cheers

V.

I'd agree with this; I previously had a 16kg Delta on my 8T boat, and I replaced it last year for a 20kg and it's been a big improvement in terms of first-time setting.

 

[Nick_H]

A cynic might think that Lewmar reccomend the bare minimum for their anchors so that yachtmakers, particularly budget builders, will fit them as OE without the risk of claims from buyers. Having said that, you dont hear of many yachts lost through dragging their anchors, and some boaters never anchor overnight so the smaller lump will be plenty.

I'd overkill it a bit Jez, as you may not always be able to get a berth if the wind picks up in the balearics in high season, plus it will pay for itself many times over if it gives you confidence to anchor out in more borderline forecasts. I have 40 kgs on 17m boat, so 32 sounds good for Seralia, but 40 would not be ridiculous

 

[noelex]

Unfortunately, there is a great incentive for manufacturers to recommend small anchors.

The main reason manufacturers do this is to get their anchors on new boats. This is an enormous market and Lewmar have been the Kings for a long time. The Delta anchor is supplied by the manufacturer as standard on an enormous number of new boats.

Because Lewmar recommend such a small size, the boat manufacturer can fit a small anchor together with a small anchor winch and other hardware. If the potential customer for the boat complains, the boat manufacturer can simply say they fit the size Lewmar recommend.

The other incentive to recommend a small anchor is that it looks like the anchor must be better. If manufacturer "A" recommends a 20kg anchor and manufacturer "B" recommends a 40kg anchor, the obvious implication is that manufacturer's "A" anchor is superior.

A few reputable manufacturers such as Rocna and Mantus have resisted this temptation and specified more realistic anchor sizes. I am sure it has cost them sales, but their size tables are much more sensible starting point, especially if you anchor overnight.

 

[Whitelighter]

Ok, makes sense (and I'd rather anchor in the islands than rely on marinas)

So, 35kg delta or do I double the budget and buy a rocna or other 'special' anchor?

 

[Hurricane]

I have heard recently that some boat builders fit "lunchtime" anchors.
That "kind of" explains things.

Some say that moving from a Delta to a Rocna of the same weight is, in fact, an upgrade.
Not sure about that but it shows that these anchors are very different.
IMO you cant compare a Delta to a (say) Rocna.
The Delta is a "ploughing" anchor - and in that sense, it never sets - it just "ploughs".

I've seen lots of evidence of this when we have been anchoring.
It is easy to see when snorkelling/swimming.
Most of the time our old Delta came to a rest after creating a furrow about 10 to 15m long.
At that stage, it had "set" but further pulling on the boat and it would continue to plough along.
I remember last August in Palma Nova we were anchored in 32 knot winds.
The anchor just ploughed its way across the bay - took all day but we needed to reset it several times.
When swimming, I've seen other boats with Rocnas and, without exception, there have been no furrows in the sand where they have set.

As you know, we switched to a Rocna but I haven't yet been able to swim when it has been deployed.
I have used it in the lagoon and it set immediately (with a jolt) but anything works in the lagoon.
Our Rocna is 55kg - JW is 20m and between 45 and 50 tonnes
We will find out how or if our upgrade has worked in a few weeks time.

First job to do when we get out there next week is to get our windlass upgrade working.
Probably see you then.

 

[Hardmy]

… you dont hear of many yachts lost through dragging their anchors, and some boaters never anchor overnight so the smaller lump will be plenty.

Nick_H, I saw the result of dragging anchors in 3 cases in September last year. Only one is probably a total loss, but you don’t want to have a damaged boat / destroyed vacation anyway. That was in the “benign” Ionian.

So, 35kg delta or do I double the budget and buy a rocna or other 'special' anchor?

Between Delta and Rocna, the latter is the better. I finally chose a 38kg Mantus for my boat which is a bit smaller/lighter than yours. As mentioned in the other thread to Vas, I like its modularity and its resetting capabilities when the wind shifts direction. I anchor a lot (OK not as much as noelex) and experienced winds up to 40 kts with this setup. At the end of the day, it really depends if you’re anchoring program is more like spending swim stop or more.

If your windlass ever packs up you would never recover a 40kg anchor with the appropriate sized chain by hand.

That happened to me with a 38 kg anchor (burnt motor because of stray currents / short circuit during a long and heavy rain), it wasn’t fun but it is doable. What were the worst conditions which you experienced with the 20 kg Delta?

 

[noelex]

The Delta is good anchor, but the Rocna is much better in my opinion.

The Delta is a "ploughing" anchor - and in that sense, it never sets - it just "ploughs".

I've seen lots of evidence of this when we have been anchoring.
It is easy to see when snorkelling/swimming.
Most of the time our old Delta came to a rest after creating a furrow about 10 to 15m long.
At that stage, it had "set" but further pulling on the boat and it would continue to plough along.
I remember last August in Palma Nova we were anchored in 32 knot winds.
The anchor just ploughed its way across the bay - took all day

I see this behaviour all the time from convex plough anchors. Here are some photos showing the type of performance described by Hurricane.

 

[kashurst]

If you are going to be anchoring anywhere near sea grass get a Rocna. Yes they are expensive but when my delta dragged a few years back when I wasnt aboard the new props, shafts etc bill was over 10 grand plus a ruined summer. Insurance company paid fortunately. I think mine is a 33Kg but I can check in a day or two.
I have used it quite a bit now in sand, mud and often seagrass and it has (so far) set first go every time with no dragging. Usually with a distinct jolt.

 

[vas]

Jez,

get yourself a 29.5kg mantus for 680euro from the EU dealer as Hardmy recommended and be done with
http://www.ildostmarine.nl/anchor.php

if you have a day or three to spare, go though the excellent thread started by noelex in cruisers forum (again as recommended by Hardmy) http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/photos-of-anchors-setting-126073.html

Spent a couple of hours last night and only managed 10pages out of 100
doubt you can sleep as relaxed when you go through all that without a Rocna or a mantus/manson, definitely not with a smallish bruce copy

cheers

V.

 

[Whitelighter]

Not heard of the mantus anchor, will read the thread on the cruisers forum.

The mantus website recommends a 48kg anchor for a 50-60ft boat weighing 22,700kg
That's nuts surely......

 

[Richard10002]

On my brief liveaboard travels from UK to Malta and back 2006 to 2009, I was truly disappointed with the 25kg plough anchor on my Moody 44. If there was a chance to drag, or not even dig in, it took it, and I would have bought a Rocna at the drop of a hat if I could have found somewhere to buy one in the flesh. Had I not got ill, my plan was to head from Malta to Lefkas, where they had Rocnas in stock - it didnt work out that way, and I dont need an anchor where I am now

My perception was that anybody who had a Rocna, (or any new generation anchor), dropped it, reversed to set it, and jolted to a stop. I dont recall anyone ever even hinting that they had dragged their anchor - it just worked. Morgans Cloud web site, (seems to be a paid for site now, but incredibly detailed and informatives for about £20 a year or so), confirmed this in even the very worst of conditions.

As has been said above, I'd guess that Rocna and Manson specify for round the world, liveaboard type cruising, where anchoring is the order of the day, and conditions could vary from good to very bad, whereas Lewmar specify for ordinary leisure use, with the occasional night at anchor, and a run for cover if there is a hint of the weather turning to vaguely bad.

Assuming the above is true, you could also guess that, weight for weight, a Rocna, or a Manson, or similar, would give better performance than a Lewmar plough type.

As to money - I find you can research the pants off a £500-£1000 decision but, once made, and the money is spent, it is forgotten fairly quickly - this assumes that you can afford it without breaking the bank, and it is more the principle and responsibility, than the money, that makes you linger over the purchase.

I'd say if you buy a Rocna or a Manson Supreme, you wont be disappointed, and might be delighted and amazed. If you buy a Delta, you might be disappointed, and almost certainly wont be amazed.

 

[BruceK]

As to money - I find you can research the pants off a £500-£1000 decision but, once made, and the money is spent, it is forgotten fairly quickly - this assumes that you can afford it without breaking the bank, and it is more the principle and responsibility, than the money, that makes you linger over the purchase.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?461126-Anchors-(I-know-I-know)/page2#rXbusWrjzoF4djyR.99

This is so true but I do like to read the debates so that I can make an informed decision when it's my turn to buy.

re Delta. I have a Bruce, it has always served me well and never let me down and I predominantly anchor. I fellow cruiser has a Delta and in one afternoon it dragged 4 times and came within 2m of hitting my boat on the last drag. The resulting panic to get it away was compounded by a tender strap left hanging over the swim platform in their haste to board and after snagging in the props wrenched and bent the leg 30 degrees toe in and up. The lesson being when something goes wrong it normally starts a chain reaction. Isn't that always the case?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Ok, makes sense (and I'd rather anchor in the islands than rely on marinas)

So, 35kg delta or do I double the budget and buy a rocna or other 'special' anchor?

The real answer to this question is how soundly do you want to sleep at night. Agree entirely that the standard Bruce anchor fitted by Ferretti is undersized and pretty useless anyway because Bruce anchors just don't dig into the weedy seabeds you find in the Med although they're great in mud and clay. I have replaced the Bruce anchors on each of my 3 Ferrettis with heavier Deltas as follows

Ferretti 46 - 25kg Delta
Ferretti 53 - 40kg Delta
Ferretti 630 - 60kg Delta (now replaced by 55kg Rocna)

The Delta is much better than the Bruce at digging into those weedy bottoms (but as a general rule try and avoid dropping your hook into those areas if you can). Having said that we dragged our 60kg Delta twice in NE Sardinia 2 seasons ago which is why I'm trying the Rocna this year but I believe the sea bed was very soft sugary sand in which any anchor would have had trouble holding. I'm planning to go back to the same bay this season to test how the Rocna performs in the same conditions

The other very useful thing you can and should do is increase the size of your chain to the maximum that your anchor winch can handle (if it is not already). Check the model of winch you've got and see if it can take a larger chain size. I'm guessing you might have 8mm chain in which case you might be able to upgrade it to 10mm just by changing the gypsy

Lastly before you do anything take some measurements of your bow roller and check if a larger anchor will actually fit and not foul the hull underneath

In your case IMHO a 40kg Delta with 75m of 10mm chain would allow you to sleep very well at night

 

[vas]

In your case IMHO a 40kg Delta with 75m of 10mm chain would allow you to sleep very well at night

except for his empty stomach as he wont have any money left after upgrading anchor, gypsy and chain (and swivel!)

so everything is a compromise...

btw, 20kg rocna down here is 50euro cheaper than 20kg mantus

V.

 

[Whitelighter]

For me:
29.5kg Mantus €752 (though they say I need 48kg)
33kg Rocna £774 (though they reckon 40kg is better)
40kg delta £332 (though they reckon 25kg is enough)

Having liked at the Mantus website id be happy with one, but not at 50kg

 

[Hurricane]

For me:
29.5kg Mantus €752 (though they say I need 48kg)
33kg Rocna £774 (though they reckon 40kg is better)
40kg delta £332 (though they reckon 25kg is enough)

Having liked at the Mantus website id be happy with one, but not at 50kg

These are widely regarded as the best money can buy.
https://www.ultramarine-anchors.com/anchor
But only in stainless so they are expensive.
Ask SammyB to show you hers.
Or just plug your iPhone in to charge (private joke).

 

[Cheery]

Interesting comparison video here. There is a much longer one somewhere on the internet. It is an underwater one that someone posted a while ago.