Anchor Weights

[whisper]

I appreciate that discussions about various types of anchors have appeared at regular intervals and hopefully my question will not reopen old ground on the technical comparisons of different patterns available. My specific question is :-

Do any of you have experience of the lightweight Fortress & FOB types?

Their publicity blurb gives one the impression that they are as good as similar shaped steel ones of 3 times the weight. Can this be so, as with a relatively small anchor locker it would be ideal for us to carry a small light-weight anchor.? The boat involved has a deep V hull, is 7.3m long and will weigh in at about 2 tonnes.

Our intention would be to only anchor for short periods in relatively sheltered conditions in settled weather. The sea bed would normally be sand or mud. The anchor would be attached to weighted line and/or 6 metres of 6mm chain. I appreciate that for an emergency a heavy piece of kit would probably be necessary and we may end up with having to carry that on board as well.

 

[webcraft]

My understanding is that lightweight anchors hold just as well as heavy ones the same size and shape . . . once you have got them to penetrate.

The problem is, a heavy anchor with plenty of weight on the tip is more likely to be successfully set in the first place.

Have a look at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com/choosingananchor.html>http://www.bluemoment.com/choosingananchor.html</A> for more on this from Alain Hylas, inventor of the Spade anchor, or search the forum for previous posts on the subject.

- Nick

 

[Guest]

I am the happy owner of a Fortress FX-16, and have been using it for the past ten years here in Florida.

The truth in the issue is that "weight" has no actual effect on the usability or effectiveness of an anchor.....unless you are considering a "stockless anchor" such as is used on battleships, aircraft carriers, etc.

The Fortress Anchors are extremely effective and I have used mine with the utmost confidence in many different anchorages.

I used it first with a 30' flybridge cruiser weighing 5 tons, and now the same anchor is used on a 33' Morgan OI sailboat that weighs in at almost 8 tons.

I have been anchored in passes during flood tides and the anchor has never pulled, and I have been anchored in 25 to 30 knot winds all night during a nor'easter and the anchor has held well without pulling. I have been in anchorages where other anchors have lost their grip and my Fortress has held.

As with any anchor its best to use a suitable length of chain for catenary effect, and the size of the boat...will be the determining factor. For a boat of your size I would suggest at least 10' of chain with proper 7 to scope.

There are other good anchors on the market, but before you make your decision you might do some homework. One thing that you can do regarding the Fortress is to do a yahoo or google search on "Fortress Anchors" and read the studies that have been done on the anchors....and do searches on the others that are available.
But....be sure to place credibility on those that are not paid advertisements for the manufacturers and that the sources are viable.

Reality is the cause of all stress!!

 

[colin_jones]

I have used a Fortress FX37 and its cheaper equivalent the Bulldog for about 8 years. The boat, in cruising trim weighs about 7.5 tons. Both are on 5m of chain and then abt 50m of rope. All anchors work well in good ground and theis pair certainly 'hold their place' in mediocre ground.

The advantage is that they dismantle for stowing and that I can launch them single handed from the dinghy. They seem to self orientate as they descend and then immediately grip.

My advice would be to buy the biggest you can afford and can stow. The FX37 is totally trustworthy at our weight. The smaller Bulldog, which was purchased according to the leaflet's recommendation about boat length, is less so and has pulled out. This is nothing to do with the design (F & B were designed by the same person) but there is more to it than length. Our Colvic Watson is a high windage boat and, like all boats, is a dancer in a big wind. For peace of mind you need to trust your anchor completely. I can say this about the FX37 and about the 35lb CQR, which is still our main gear.

We all start off thinking that we will never anchor in anything other than sand and for picnic time. Unfortunately, Soddes Lawe of Ye Sea will generally decree otherwise, so it is best to be prepared to cope withit.

 

[extravert]

A Fortress is the anchor stipulated in the class rules of my boat, an X99, and it is the one I use most of the time. I have only ever used it in sand and mud, and it has always held well. After using it in a tide or a blow the difficult part comes when trying to get it out again, they seem to continue to dig in. In this case I use wave motion or crew running fore and aft to break it out.

When long distance cruising I also carry a heavier plough, and in Scotland a fishermans for the rock and weed, but they don't often get used.

For your use a Fortress sounds about right, but I am sure there are plenty of people who will disagree.

 

[vyv_cox]

I would say that my Fortress holds very well under a steady pull. As ever, the composition of the bottom is important and there are some in which it probably does not work so well as others. This is the anchoring lottery. However, I have experienced two failures to reset when either the wind direction or tide turned. This has never happened with the Delta, although to be fair the Delta is on all chain and the Fortress is on about 7 metres chain and the main warp Anchorplait. I don't anchor overnight on the Fortress as a result of this experience but there's no doubt it is far easier on the back than the Delta.

 

[seaesta]

Perhaps more should be said about increasing the catenery effect with an anchor weight or "angel" that slides down the anchor chain/warp. I sleep much easier with one of these and having two seperate elements eases handling and stowage problems.
I have made angels from
- a length of very heavy ground chain on a D shackle (gets rusty)
- casting a 20 lb lump of lead onto a stainless eyebolt (dont drop it thro the deck)
both work well and are cheap if you womble the parts.
Martin

 

[whisper]

Re: Angels / Chums

I've always wondered about these. How do you prevent them sliding ever nearer to the anchor? Does this matter in anycase?

 

[ditchcrawler]

I use a Fortress FX11 as a lunch hook on my Hunter 265,about 3 tonnes loaded.It holds well in mud/sand on the east coast.I have the free mud brackets fitted to mine(you send off for them from manufacturer).However it does not set as easily as my Delta and needs more care to get it to bite initially.If you are going backwards too fast it can skip across the bottom.

 

[Celena]

The only thing an anchor chum will do is restrict your swinging circle in benign conditions. In extreme conditions your rode will be bar tight (assuming well dug in anchor and 7 to 1 scope) In these conditions all chain is a distinct disadvantage as there is no stretch and the anchor can be jerked out. If you must have all chain you need a very long snubber as well (with much of the chain slack) (IMHO of course!)

 

[seaesta]

Re: Angels / Chums

The trick is to lower them on a separate warp to about half the depth. You pull them back onbaord before pulling up the anchor. It is a good idea to have the anchor chain reasonably tight before pulling in the anchor weight so that it rides back up the chain as you pull it in, otherwise you may end up pulling in a loop of anchor chain and then having to let it go again. I wouldnt put and anchor weight down an anchor warp - only down a chain (in case the back and forth motion causes the anchor weight to chafe the warp).

 

[Anchorite]

Re: Angels / Chums

There is a NZ model on show at Paris BS: it addresses various problems
like how do you thread it on (it has a 'gate' on the side), how do you get it to
slide down (built-in Delrin roller). It weighs in at 13.6 kgs - about 30 lbs - which
would not be simple to get on to your chain on a pitching foredeck and 10 times
worse trying to recover the whole lot at 0200 in driving rain.

 

[hylas]

Re: Fortress and FOBlight

My own opinion is that weigth is important at the beginning of the digging in process.. and also the place where the weight is located.. (of course it should be at the anchor's tip)
If you look at the figures given on the Fortress Web page, you will see somewhere that, compared weight for weight with a Danforth, the holding of the Fortress is about three time the one of the Danforth.. Waooooo !!! very impressive..
Unless you compare also the SIZE.. Aluminum is about three time lighter than Steel
and the Fortress is very similar in shape to a Danforth.. It would be quite interesting to read the comments of Fortress Company about the holding comparison SIZE for SIZE with a Danforth?? They NEVER talk about this as all their Marketing positionning is based on the HUGE holding difference with the competition when compared WEIGHT for WEIGHT with STEEL anchors... which is not fair...

From the tests we conducted with the French Magazine "Voiles Magazine" the Fortress was slightly beter than the Bulldog.. the Fortress is better manufactured than the Bulldog. For example the Fortress's edges are sharper than the Bulldog's edges..

In Sand and mud.. The Fortress anchor give very good results and could be the anchor of choice for anchoring for short period of time in settled weather and when the boat will not be left unattended.. and also when you want to set an anchor on the side of your boat using your dinghy...

But also the Fortress has the same limitations than the Danforth:
- it will never set on hard sand and weed (wrong penetrating angle: "razor like".. )
- it can be blocked with a small stone wedged in between the two flukes..
- it is a "unstable" anchor and under strong pulls, the anchor roll out (Corkscrew) and set on three points: extermity of the Shank, extremity of the strut and one of the fluke's tip and in this position it will slide on the seabottom and NEVER dig in again
- when used during wind or current shift, the anchoring line can be entangle between the flukes and the strut.. the anchor "working" in the reverse position..

The FOB light anchor is a poor copy of the Fortress.. The strut is too short and the aluminum alloy used for the manufacturing is too soft (When compared with the Fortress) at each tests (including those of "Voiles Magazine" ) whe always have bent the shank of the FOB light..

 

[hylas]

Re: Angels / Chums

I also think that this device called "sentinel" "angel" or "chum" is one of the brillant "Marketing" ideas...
Weight is usually around 10 kg.. which is the weight of 4 meters of 10 mm chain.. Then give 4 metres more of your mooring line and you will achieve the same result..

and PLEASE don't talk about the "catenary" effect of the chain.. It is only there with light winds when nobody care about it.. with as few as 30 knots of wind, the chain is bar tight and the only way to produce a shock absorbing effect is to use a Nylon wrap directly spliced on your chain (see http://www.bluemoment.com/warpchainsplice.html )

 

[seaesta]

Re: Angels / Chums

Fair enough if you are using 10 mm chain.

My own is a much smaller boat and uses 6mm. In mycase the extra requirement would then be approximately 12 m extra chain which I dont have and wouldnt fit in the stowage space. The point I was making about the angel is that it is home made and handlable - especially important to those of us on tight budgets and using hand over hand anchor recovery from littler boats. In my case and many others its not a marketing gimick but a practical and valuable aid.

 

[Boathook]

Re: Anchor Weights re Seaesta

If you made your own anchor angel out of lead how easy was it to melt and cast? I am collecting the stuff at the moment and will need to cast in the new year.
I will need to do it outdoors with protective clothing but will an ordinary saucepan and 'gas ring' be suitable for melting in?

Tips, hints, links, etc. will be most welcome.

 

[MedMan]

Re: Anchor Weights re Seaesta

Yes and yes. I cast a number of lead diving weights a few years back using old lead pipe pulled out when we re-did our bathroom. I used an old saucepan on a portable butane gas ring. Definitely do it outside as the dust, old paint etc burn and smell something chronic!

I used wooden shuttering for the moulds lined with baking foil. The wood scortched, but that's all.

 

[seaesta]

Re: Anchor Weights re Seaesta

I agree with Medman. A few more points though

1. Lead is heavy so if using an old pan (like me) dont over load it in case the handle comes off and spills molten lead on you. You can cast it in "layers" so can load the pan reasonably
2. Do it out side - e.g. with a good primus or barbecure with a gas ring and stay up wind it takes a lot of heat so dont try it in on afreezing day with a stiff breeze. You can use Aluminim foil to shelter it and reflect the heat in.
3. Never use the pan again
4. after the first "layer" you can cast in any old bits of stainless to get more weight
5. Cone shape is ideal - wont roll far and you can easily get the eye bolt to go through all the layers
6. Avoid thin flat shapes - my first one was like this and waved about in the tide - seemed to be causing drag so I re cast it in a more cubic shape ( in an old tin )
7. Make sure everything is very dry before you cast. Liquid metal turns water instantly to steam - sometimes with explosive speed and sprays hot metal around. If in doubt heat everything up with a blowtorch first.

Good luck

Seaesta

 

[Jacket]

Re: Anchor Weights re Seaesta

Whatever you do, make sure that there is no chance of moisture getting near the hot lead- if it does the effects are spectacular, to say the least.

So be very carefull that the saucepan and the lead are totally dry. If you're doing it outside, make sure that the forecast is a guaranteed dry day- even a foggy day can provide enough moisture to cause problems.