Anchor snubber design.

[Neeves]

Finally Noelex - Fortress have conducted tests, of which you are critical - please offer links to any tests conducted on a Mantus anchor that stand up as being impartial and independent. You seem to imply the 'work' you have conducted is fair an impartial, Kobra perhaps being an example. Never have we seen 2 similarly sized anchors side by side - which would be the simplest comparative test to conduct. Please do not refer us to the videos on the Mantus site (which were drivel), they have all been removed - I wonder why. I'm also wondering about some other images - but that will be another story.

Jonathan

 

[Flica]

The Church of England, during the 19th century, nearly shook itself to pieces over the vexed question of how many angels could dance on the head of a pin.
Mind you Samuel Wilberforce went out looking for people and arguments with whom he could battle (like many contributors to this board).
Whenever we get onto the subject of anchors we have the same intensity, partisanship and dare I say pseudo-scholarship.
I've just re-read a very old e-mail from Alan Poiraud, where he set out the characteristics of the ideal anchor. Nothing has changed - many anchors now marketed conform to his ideal anchor.
I have been sailing boats since 1972, have experienced many anchors and come to the conclusion that far more important than the anchor is the seabed and the competence of the anchorer,
I'm very glad that the Danforth (made in the UK with a forged shank), that I've used on and off since 1990 as a kedge, performed so well in the Chesapeake Bay tests.
I look forward to the FX11 replacing the Delta as my aft Med-mooring kedge doing as well. It's just that the Delta, I'm using now, has too little fluke area to be reliable in a soft mud bottom occasionally found in Greek harbours.

 

[Neeves]

Flica,

We sadly do not have enough forum members with your sober insights nor experience - you are not alone but the members of your loose association are small and select in numbers. Keep it up!

I do take issue (I must be too young) but was a genuine Danforth made in the UK? Forged shanks are so very 20th Century (and are another reason older Danforth are not as good as a Fortress). We don't see genuine Danforth in Oz, but oddly they are common in Japan, so my exposure to them is limited to the few times I can squeeze a visit to an American chandler. Here we unbranded copies.

Jonathan

 

[noelex]

Jonathan, that is a lot of questions about the Mantus anchor. I think many of these would be better directed at the manufacturer. I am just a purchaser of their product.

Nevertheless, I will try to answer some of the questions you have raised to the best of my ability, although it will take some time and several posts to do so.

 

[Neeves]

Jonathan, that is a lot of questions about the Mantus anchor. I am just a purchaser of their product.

.

You are not expecting that comment to be taken seriously are you?

I'd direct anyone who has been living on Mars, or under a rock, to have a look at your thread, Pictures of Anchors on Cruisers Forum

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/photos-of-anchors-setting-126073.html

and your 2 videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDC0g1GzdUc

The first particularly shows the 16 degree setting angle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q7-alugXMQ

(unless there are more?)

and then to make their own decision.



I can understand it will take some effort (Squaring circles can be very difficult) - I look forward in anticipation.

Jonathan

 

[Flica]

Flica,

We sadly do not have enough forum members with your sober insights nor experience - you are not alone but the members of your loose association are small and select in numbers. Keep it up!

I do take issue (I must be too young) but was a genuine Danforth made in the UK? Forged shanks are so very 20th Century (and are another reason older Danforth are not as good as a Fortress). We don't see genuine Danforth in Oz, but oddly they are common in Japan, so my exposure to them is limited to the few times I can squeeze a visit to an American chandler. Here we unbranded copies.

Jonathan

It's actually called a "Studland", but in all design details, except the shank is a Danforth. It's also an odd weight for Danforth, 6kg.
It has the doubtful honour of having divested the island of Gue of telephone and electric power - an unmarked cable, it went immovably underneath, apparently pulling out the earth cable from the installation cabinet.
I had to slip it and go back with 3 St Agnes friends at low tide to recover it.
So I can vouch for the holding-power of the Danforth anchor. Quite often used as the second anchor in a tideway, now it has only seen action, in the Med during the last 14 years on those occasions when a V 2nd rode is necessary or the Delta has not held or is behaving suspiciously. Easy to row out on a dinghy, it held the boat, alone, for 60 hrs in a meltemi reaching 7 in Tristromo on Skyros, when the bower CQR had been terminally fouled by plastic ducks.
Being a forbidden area the military came and waved at me, so I waved back, and tried, unsuccessfully, to locate Rupert Brooke's grave with the binos.

 

[Neeves]

I believe original Danforth had forged shanks and again, I thought, they were available for a considerable period of time (it was the only way originally to develop strength).

I think you will find the Fortress considerably easier to row out (and subsequently recover). I'd not be recommending storing it disassembled, its a bit fiddly to assemble in the dark, and rain. One trick, suggested by a Forum member, is to replace the nuts with wing nuts (though I'm not sure you can source nyloc wing (butterfly) nuts). We store ours assembled.

My Grandfather (Navy) and Great Uncle (MC) were both participants. I'm the custodian of the medals and other artefacts, including a picture of the River Clyde on the beach. We have visited - a location full of sadness, so understated - so many similar places. Equally emotional - sailing over the wrecks of Repulse and Prince of Wales (Coincidentally one of my Grandfather's ships (he was a lowly stoker) was commissioned alongside Repulse (more photos).

Jonathan

 

[GHA]

I have been sailing boats since 1972, have experienced many anchors and come to the conclusion that far more important than the anchor is the seabed and the competence of the anchorer,

Not sure "competence" is quite such a big deal these days with the better designs around, enough scope & a snubber in decent holding they will pretty much look after themselves. Not so many little 'tricks' to learn to coax the hook into the seabed. Thank goodness!

 

[Flica]

Not sure "competence" is quite such a big deal these days with the better designs around, enough scope & a snubber in decent holding they will pretty much look after themselves. Not so many little 'tricks' to learn to coax the hook into the seabed. Thank goodness!

You're welcome to your opinion - however here in Greek waters I guess 50% of anchorers really don't appear to have a grasp of ANY technique. And they're not all charterers.
I suspect that, compared to UK waters, I have a massively larger population to observe as everyone has to anchor, either at a quay or in an anchorage. There are few alongside marinas as demanded in N Europe waters. Quite a few have tails to a ground chain and mooring, but I spend only about 10% of each season in such.

 

[GHA]

You're welcome to your opinion - however here in Greek waters I guess 50% of anchorers really don't appear to have a grasp of ANY technique. And they're not all charterers.
I suspect that, compared to UK waters, I have a massively larger population to observe as everyone has to anchor, either at a quay or in an anchorage. There are few alongside marinas as demanded in N Europe waters. Quite a few have tails to a ground chain and mooring, but I spend only about 10% of each season in such.

OK, guess I have "not being a complete know nothing" coming way before "competence"

Plenty round here every summer as well, not a clue about scope. Though these days it doesn't take much technique to get a decent anchor to dig in and stay there away from occasional 'difficult' bottoms. Unlike that often grumpy cqr I started with

 

[Neeves]

Flica,

You will be quite at home here in Oz, though you might miss the ancient history, cheap wine and the med moor (something we could usefully import). We have hundreds of miles of marina free coastline - and outside the few big cities - everyone must anchor. Steer clear of the Whitsundays and you will have the coast to yourself particularly if you deny yourself the pleasures of Queensland's tropical waters.

Jonathan