Anchor not holding- advice please?

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Mike k

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Hi we have been fishing today as its the cod season on the Mersey but when we released our anchor (6Kg Lewmar Delta which is supposed to be ok for my boat length) we were dragged about 200/300 yards before it eventually set . My boat is 24 ft ( 3tonnes I think) and I was in 35 feet of water and had released 48metres of 8mm chain. By the time it held we were in 50 feet of water. Todays H/ tide was 9.5 metres and we were setting anchor ( facing the tide) 2 hours before high- Mersey tide comes in about 7/8 knots.

I am wondering if the tidal force had spun the anchor around( its on a swivel) and it was lying on its back despite the blurb saying self righting etc.

I would welcome any views on this as I would like to rectify this and don't want a repeat performance really.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

cheers

Mike
 
On our last boat we had a Rocna and a Spade.

The Rocna never budged. It was especially difficult to get up from anything muddy or soft (like the Mersey?).

The spade was heavier and seemed to dig deeper in sand but not mud.

I could recommend either.

We had a Delta before these two and dragged a few times. It did eventually reset itself but only after a short drift. But the Rocna and Spade seemed to set really quickly so I guess that if they do come out at the turn of the tide, they reset almost without you noticing.

Garold
 
6kg seems a little light to me, despite the wonderful claims of the ad men for modern anchors.

As you point out, the Mersey flows fast & the tides are BIG so a well dug in anchor is important. Try adding an angel weight about 10-20' from the anchor so that the pull is closer to horizontal on the anchor. It's possible that the tide pull is lifting the anchor shank & making it more likely to skid across the surface rather than bite in.
 
Mike k said:
Hi we have been fishing today as its the cod season on the Mersey but when we released our anchor (6Kg Lewmar Delta which is supposed to be ok for my boat length) we were dragged about 200/300 yards before it eventually set . My boat is 24 ft ( 3tonnes I think) and I was in 35 feet of water and had released 48metres of 8mm chain. By the time it held we were in 50 feet of water. Todays H/ tide was 9.5 metres and we were setting anchor ( facing the tide) 2 hours before high- Mersey tide comes in about 7/8 knots.

I am wondering if the tidal force had spun the anchor around( its on a swivel) and it was lying on its back despite the blurb saying self righting etc.

I would welcome any views on this as I would like to rectify this and don't want a repeat performance really.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

cheers

Mike
Click to expand...

Blimey an anchor thread this could Run!
Mike peeps will argue about the why's and wherefores of anchors till Liverpool win the Champions League!!!
I would suggest from what you Posted, although a bit confused cos you say 35 ft then 48 metres? cos 48 metres is more than plenty???
I know what its like chuckin the hook in a current (Menai Strait) and it can be a B%gger to hold. Don't get me wrong but did you 'Pay' the rode out or just chuck the lot in?
However , as you know two hours before High, you are on a heck of a current there and it's rising like a good un.
Where abouts in the Mersey were you Skip?
 
Mike k said:
Hi we have been fishing today as its the cod season on the Mersey but when we released our anchor (6Kg Lewmar Delta which is supposed to be ok for my boat length) we were dragged about 200/300 yards before it eventually set . My boat is 24 ft ( 3tonnes I think) and I was in 35 feet of water and had released 48metres of 8mm chain. By the time it held we were in 50 feet of water. Todays H/ tide was 9.5 metres and we were setting anchor ( facing the tide) 2 hours before high- Mersey tide comes in about 7/8 knots.

I am wondering if the tidal force had spun the anchor around( its on a swivel) and it was lying on its back despite the blurb saying self righting etc.

I would welcome any views on this as I would like to rectify this and don't want a repeat performance really.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

cheers

Hi Mike,
As a rule of thumb, you should drop 4 times the depth of water you are in, so you certainly put enough chain out, it may be that the bottom was stony or perhaps lot of weed growing so you anchor didn't bite?
i doubt if the swivel had anything to do with it!
Click to expand...
 
Garold said:
On our last boat we had a Rocna and a Spade.

The Rocna never budged. It was especially difficult to get up from anything muddy or soft (like the Mersey?).

The spade was heavier and seemed to dig deeper in sand but not mud.

I could recommend either.

We had a Delta before these two and dragged a few times. It did eventually reset itself but only after a short drift. But the Rocna and Spade seemed to set really quickly so I guess that if they do come out at the turn of the tide, they reset almost without you noticing.

Garold
Click to expand...


thanks Garold I will look up Rocna and Spade but just for clarification the tide had not turned this all happened 2 hours before H/t
 
Kawasaki said:
Blimey an anchor thread this could Run!
Mike peeps will argue about the why's and wherefores of anchors till Liverpool win the Champions League!!!
I would suggest from what you Posted, although a bit confused cos you say 35 ft then 48 metres? cos 48 metres is more than plenty???
I know what its like chuckin the hook in a current (Menai Strait) and it can be a B%gger to hold. Don't get me wrong but did you 'Pay' the rode out or just chuck the lot in?
However , as you know two hours before High, you are on a heck of a current there and it's rising like a good un.
Where abouts in the Mersey were you Skip?
Click to expand...

Hi Rich

we were just upstream of the 'clock Tower' ( when we started anyway) which is near the Sandon half tide lock, it was defo 35ft ish and we paid our 48mtres of 8mm on a electric windlass so relying on the tide flow moving us back to set the anchor , this is my normal MO and normally its fine .Not today. Searush is suggesting a bigger anchor( 10g??) which I would be happy to do- its just a bit strange - any views on the anchor landing in its back?
Thanks
Mike
 
Searush said:
6kg seems a little light to me, despite the wonderful claims of the ad men for modern anchors.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I'd have something bigger on a 24 foot boat. I have a 4kg Delta even on my 4.3m RIB tender

Nothing to do with the swivel

If you are dragging at 7-8 knots SOG you need to slow down to let it set more easily. The force needed to decelerate a boat from 8 to 0 knots SOG (or accelerate it from 0 to 8 knots STW if you prefer) in the short length dictated by the "springiness" of the catenary in 160 feet of chain is often more than a 6kg anchor will take
 
a bigger anchor definitely 10 - 12 Kg - subject to the winch fitted. If you are spending money have a serious look at Rocnas too. Deltas usually good in mud but Rocna sets quicker.
 
Whip round to the other side and take a look at the hook hanging off the front of Garry's fishing boat Discovery that's all you need in the Mersey. Not pretty but does the job.
 
Thanks all - based on the good advice here- its a Bigger or different anchor. All points noted and now for some homework.

All points very much appreciated. Many thanks.

Bigwow - how you going on in that very shallow marina- 5ft at one point IIRC ( alarms going off etc!) ? Can't be dredged further this year due to EA quota they said.
 
Mike k said:
Thanks all - based on the good advice here- its a Bigger or different anchor. All points noted and now for some homework.

All points very much appreciated. Many thanks.

Bigwow - how you going on in that very shallow marina- 5ft at one point IIRC ( alarms going off etc!) ? Can't be dredged further this year due to EA quota they said.
Click to expand...

The marina I'm in has dredging going on apace which will continue until the new year. Non of which affects me as I can float on a wet hanky:encouragement:
 
TBH, the Mersey is mostly fine sand or mud (hence the colour of the river) and a cheap Danforth will do the job if heavy enough, and a 10-12Kg (25-30lb) Danforth can be picked up off the Jumbles or e-bay for a few quid. I paid a tenner for mine with 5m of chain & it sits in the cockpit locker in case I ever need a kedge.
 
Mike k, I am a big fan of the Delta and I have had these anchors on several boats with generally excellent experience. However, there have been a couple of instances where the Delta has dragged in anchorages where the seabed has been very soft. The Delta is good at penetrating through weed and getting a set in a hard seabed but it doesn't have a large surface area to resist dragging in a soft seabed. Consider either changing up to a larger Delta or possibly something like a Bruce which has a greater surface area. Yes a 6kg anchor doesn't sound like a big enough anchor to resist a 7-8kt tide either. I think most types of anchor of this size in the conditions you describe would struggle
 
I had a few anchoring mishaps in the early days, and as I was using my anchor mostly for overnights on the hook, it was pretty important to get it right!

So I bought a book that helped in understanding the techniques and science behind anchoring. Since then, I've had no problems.

Have a look on Amazon for a book called "Staying Put: The Art of Anchoring".
 
Mike k said:
Hi we have been fishing today as its the cod season on the Mersey but when we released our anchor (6Kg Lewmar Delta which is supposed to be ok for my boat length) we were dragged about 200/300 yards before it eventually set . My boat is 24 ft ( 3tonnes I think) and I was in 35 feet of water and had released 48metres of 8mm chain. By the time it held we were in 50 feet of water. Todays H/ tide was 9.5 metres and we were setting anchor ( facing the tide) 2 hours before high- Mersey tide comes in about 7/8 knots.

I am wondering if the tidal force had spun the anchor around( its on a swivel) and it was lying on its back despite the blurb saying self righting etc.

I would welcome any views on this as I would like to rectify this and don't want a repeat performance really.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

cheers

Mike
Click to expand...

Suggest posting on the scuttlebutt. They have a lot of knowledge about anchors and I'm sure it will be forthcoming. :)
 
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