Anchor = Mooring ??

[DeeGee]

A bit of airy fairy thought...

Mathemeticians have a notion strict equivalence of things where A imples B, and B implies A, that is: both ways. Now, I think a mooring implies an anchor, but an anchor doesnt imply a mooring. So they are not strictly equivalent.

In another way of looking at the topic in the context of IRPCS, look at <font color="blue"> RULE 3 General Definitions (i) The word "underway" means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground. </font> So, either a vessel is underway, or one of the three items apply.

On a mooring, you are not aground or made fast to the shore (which is defined as above MHWS), so you must be either anchored, or underway. I think this is where the Knowledgable Mariner in another thread is coming from. I have to admit, that, despite his illogical conclusions:
<font color="red"> Moored boats are at anchor, but anchored boats are not necessarily on a mooring.</font>

I venture not onto the argument about showing lights, I think that is up to the individual circumstances, moored or not.

/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[l'escargot]

The IRPCS are purely that, rules to prevent collisions. They are not the ultimate source of definitions of everything relating to boats. In the example you give not every eventuality is covered (the rules are lacking in many areas).

Just because it doesn't fall into two of the categories doesn't mean it must fall into the third, otherwise you could perm any two out of the three e.g. it is not anchored, it is not made fast to the shore so it must be aground.

Just depends on how ridiculous you want your argument to be. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Ships_Cat]

I don't think there is any question about it. If one is on a mooring, then one is "anchored".

The only question is when one needs to show lights and shapes on a small vessel for being so "anchored". In the other thread I thought most had a pretty good idea of when so, except for the "ships captain" who was completely adrift on that point (but it turns out that he doesn't have a small boat so could hardly have been expected to know, I guess).

John

 

[DeeGee]

[ QUOTE ]
...Just depends on how ridiculous you want your argument to be. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]Hey, read my first line... /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[bedouin]

You may be right there.

One of the sailing magazines ran a campaign a year or so ago about charges for moorings. In this they made the point that a mooring started out as being a buoyed anchor - and so legally there was no difference between being on a mooring and being at anchor.

 

[Shanty]

Vaguely recall this one coming up when I was doing my Yachtmaster theory many years ago. I think the pragmatic solution we came to, after some discussion, was that a mooring in a recognised mooring area (i.e. marked as such on the chart) was a method of being attached to the shore - thus no lights / shapes required.

This obviously takes no account of local byelaws, as it is just an attempt at interpreting IRPCS.

 

[l'escargot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...Just depends on how ridiculous you want your argument to be. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]Hey, read my first line... /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey don't get sensitive, that's why I put in the /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif - the "you" was third person, not aimed at you! It was a bit long winded to put: "Just depends on how ridiculous one wants one's argument to be" and you'd think I'd just got back from the RYS /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[bedouin]

[ QUOTE ]

Hey don't get sensitive, that's why I put in the /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif - the "you" was third person, not aimed at you! It was a bit long winded to put: "Just depends on how ridiculous one wants one's argument to be" and you'd think I'd just got back from the RYS /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
<pedant_mode>
"You" is second person
</pedant_mode>

 

[NigeCh]

IRPCS .... All of the words please

IRPC .... no problem. The last 2 words of the title are 'at sea' At sea is defined precisely. Category A, B, C or D waters are the waters in the Merchant
Shipping (Categorisation of Waters) Regulations 1992 and listed in the Merchant Shipping Notice number 1776 which applies to us all [And I doubt whether anybody here has read either the Water Regulations or the above said notice /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif ]

The above is a (not very well known) appendage to the IRPCS and defines exactly when (and how and vice-versa) a mooring becomes an anchorage and when an anchor light either needs or needs not to be displayed.

 

[FullCircle]

Well, I have another mode you haven't thought of, and which many of us have experienced.
Are you underway when you are dragging your anchor, or are you anchored?
Is the definition that if your anchor isn't actually bumping along the sea bed, then you are underway, or if you have a tenuous link with the sea bed by dragging what then? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Similarly, if I am underway when dragging, and discover that fact, should I pull down the anchor ball/riding light before seeing to the daragging situation, or risk the ridicule of my friends and neighbours by being underway with the wrong signals/lights.
So confusing /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[sailorman]

yes Jim wot about "Drudgeing" then /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[TonyD]

Re: IRPCS .... All of the words please

Having read both the Merchant Shipping (Categorisation of Waters) Regulations 1992 and the associated Merchant Shipping Notice number 1776 you referred to. All I can find are the definitions of the categories of waters and a list of those waters in the UK. I can find no reference to anchorage or mooring. I am obviously not looking in the right place. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Can you give me a pointer to find the correct section, please?

Tony

 

[DeeGee]

Wot\'s an anchor anyway??

Further whimsical thoughts on this matter, after all it is Sunday... how is an anchor defined? Is a lump of concrete, or a couple of Ford engine blocks, to be counted as an anchor?....... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[l'escargot]

[ QUOTE ]
<pedant_mode>
"You" is second person
</pedant_mode>

[/ QUOTE ]

Have I got the apostrophe right in "one's"?

 

[Birdseye]

Re: Wot\'s an anchor anyway??

As you say, it is Sunday. In the old days it would have been "how many angels on the head of a pin" but in a secular society........................

Would you like to try defining a "narrow channel"? Or better still, what for the purposes of colregs is a vessel - size wise?

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Wot\'s an anchor anyway??

According to some, an "anchor" is only an anchor if it is a Spade. In which case I need never show any light or shape. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

John

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Wot\'s an anchor anyway??

"According to some, an "anchor" is only an anchor if it is a Spade."

I was always told it is a good thing to call a Spade a Spade. If you start calling an anchor a spade, next thing you know you'll be calling a vacuum flask a Hoover.

 

[cliff]

Re: Wot\'s an anchor anyway??

[ QUOTE ]
"According to some, an "anchor" is only an anchor if it is a Spade."

I was always told it is a good thing to call a Spade a Spade. If you start calling an anchor a spade, next thing you know you'll be calling a vacuum flask a Hoover.

[/ QUOTE ]A bit like "when is a spade not a spade?"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
"when it's a shovel"
----------

“Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity”
Skype id:cliffillupo

 

[Jezlyn]

[ QUOTE ]
In another way of looking at the topic in the context of IRPCS, look at <font color="blue"> RULE 3 General Definitions (i) The word "underway" means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground. </font> So, either a vessel is underway, or one of the three items apply.

On a mooring, you are not aground or made fast to the shore (which is defined as above MHWS), so you must be either anchored, or underway.

[/ QUOTE ]

My boats on a drying mooring, which I guess means that for some of the time I am aground!

 

[hylass]

Re: Wot\'s an anchor anyway??

[ QUOTE ]
an "anchor" is only an anchor if it is a Spade. - John

[/ QUOTE ]

Many thanks John for the free advertisement..

(Please note that the author of this comment has no commercial interest and/or is not recieving any compensation from the SPADE company!.. :0) ) /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif