Anchor locker leak horror

[ex-Gladys]

I had leaks around the feet of the pushpit on Gladys when we got her, removal of aft cabin head lining and a bit of prodding around revealed the feet bolts had just been drilled through the balsa core. I can't emphasise enough the benefit of cutting back to an absolutely bang on piece. The cutting out took far longer than the reinstatement, I stuck a lump of chunky marine ply after cutting away inner skin and balsa, with a thickened mix of epoxy (colloidal silica filler) and once that had cured laid up about three layers of woven mat over the top. Pleasantly relieved about the ease of reinstatement.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Could be that the chain is imperial 3/8"

 

[Leighb]

That was the chain size on my Halmatic when I bought her, changed to a smaller size, with new chain, fortunately there was the correct alternative gipsy on board already.

 

[macd]

Could be that the chain is imperial 3/8"

My thought, too. But no chain currently available seems to be made from 3/8" (9.5mm) wire. Even US 3/8" is actually 10mm.
Even so, link length and width is much more critical than wire diameter: the OP might find that offering the gypsy up at a chandlery will find something that fits. Also worth his checking out Vyv's page on chain: https://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Chaindefinitions.aspx

 

[jordanbasset]

Perhaps a silly question, but are you sure the leak is coming from the anchor locker. Appreciate the cricumstantial evidence points that way but you seem to suggest you are not absolutely certain when you write

'BUT obviously it appears that where the floor of the anchor locker meets the ply bulkhead (which would correspond to the approximate line of dampness on the inside) there must be a crack or hole allowing standing water to seep through.'

Water has a habit in boats, in my experience, of coming out to cause problems some distance from the actual source of the leak. Apologies if you have already identified beyond doubt the anchor locker is the source of the leak, just do not want you doing a lot of work and then still finding the leak not fixed

 

[Tim O]

Perhaps a silly question, but are you sure the leak is coming from the anchor locker. Appreciate the cricumstantial evidence points that way but you seem to suggest you are not absolutely certain when you write

'BUT obviously it appears that where the floor of the anchor locker meets the ply bulkhead (which would correspond to the approximate line of dampness on the inside) there must be a crack or hole allowing standing water to seep through.'

Water has a habit in boats, in my experience, of coming out to cause problems some distance from the actual source of the leak. Apologies if you have already identified beyond doubt the anchor locker is the source of the leak, just do not want you doing a lot of work and then still finding the leak not fixed

It has occurred to me but realistically, i cant see another source of the leak given where it is and what I can see.

Here are a few photos:

First from inside...bow is to left in this picture


The black pen line shows the extent of stained/soft ply
Heeis looking down into the anchor locker....bow is to top in this picture


looks like there has been a previous attempt to patch up a leak....see the mass of untidy glasswork at the back edge of the locker...this is on the opposite side of the bulkhead in the first picture and the flat floor of the locker is just about the same height as my black line showing the damaged wood. here is a close up of the "repair"


and here are two pics of one of the worst sections of the chain...there's plenty like this...and one of the best!



I think you'll agree the chain needs replacing! I could cut out worst sections but it would be full of joining links then! Have spoken to John at SL SPares and my gypsy is an old SL S60...he reckons it needs 9.5mm chain with an internal pitch of 28mm...not easy to come by...was wondering if 10mm DIN766 would fit as it has internal pitch of 28mm

 

[sarabande]

Take the chainwheel into a chandler and ask to check it against some decent 10mm chain. It might be a bit worn and accommodate the 10mm quite well.

 

[Tim O]

I might try that....the alternative is to get hold of an 8mm gypsy for the SL windlass and downsize to 8mm chain....some folk have suggested 10mm is oversized for a 10m boat (Colvic Countess 33)......the entire run of chain is actually 40m of 9.5mm at anchor end joined to 20m of what seems to be 8.5mm!!!.....most of the 8.5mm is actually sound just a section that needs taking out

 

[Neeves]

I'd check the costs of moving to 8mm. If you can source a reasonably priced 8mm chainwheel, gypsy, wildcat that fits the windlass then downsizing is a very sensible option. You will find 8mm much easier to source and you will be able to shop around. Shopping around for 9.5mm sounds like a nightmare. The cost of new 8mm and a gypsy might be less than sourcing 9.5mm (or 10mm if it fits).

If you source an 8mm gypsy do as Sarabande suggests - take the chainwheel in to whichever chandler you choose and check the chain against the wheel - good chandlers would be able to run the complete length of chain though the wheel - but there are not many 'good' chandlers - so you might need to simply test short lengths.

I cannot comment on 40m of rode - it depends on where you anchor. But its 10m more than we had when our cat was commissioned but half what we have now. Read into that what you like!

G30, 8mm is more than adequate in terms of strength (and to me, 10mm or even 9.5mm is way overweight and overstrength (or it was when new). I'm no expert on Colvic Countess 33 - how heavy should she be? Read up on recent threads on chain and catenary and if you then have some questions - start a new thread! Bear in mind the worship of catenary was developed when anchors were less efficient than today, nylon was a novelty and higher tensile chain was unheard of. If you anchor in shallow water, which is all you can do with a 40m rode, then you will have no catenary.

Keep the old 8.5mm chain - you can use it as a second rode extended with nylon.

Jonathan

 

[sarabande]

"If you anchor in shallow water, which is all you can do with a 40m rode, then you will have no catenary."

On a 5:1, that's about 8m depth, on a 3:1 it's about 13m depth. Neither of which is shallow. I disagree with the fundamental physics of the second part of the conditional clause.

 

[Neeves]

Maybe I should enlarge the sentence to cover Sarabande's concerns.

If you are anchoring over night, with a reasonable tide then with 40m of chain and possibly a minimum of 1m from sealevel to bow roller and you also require a modicum of safety then with such chain you will be, certainly at low tide, in shallow water.

I was making the fundamental assumption that this would not be a 2 hour lunch time stop.

8m depth, minus 1m for sealevel to bow roller, minus a (nominal) 3m tide - seems to leave a depth of 4m, which is quite shallow, considering you need searoom to swing and might have a 2m draught.

But if you never anchor overnight, do not consider tides and your bow roller is at sealevel then - you are quite correct.

Jonathan

 

[Tim O]

Ok, I'm now armed with epoxy filler to smooth the lumpy botched repair off, and a metre square of glass cloth and a kilo of epoxy resin......all I need now is a dry warm day.....!!!!!

I've put a tarp over entire bow of the boat now, to try keep the locker dry till I get a free dry day.......will also help my leaky forehatch which is going to have to come out and be resealed methinks!

Great thing about driving rain.....you find out where all the little leaks are

 

[ex-Gladys]

Ok, I'm now armed with epoxy filler to smooth the lumpy botched repair off, and a metre square of glass cloth and a kilo of epoxy resin......all I need now is a dry warm day.....!!!!!

I've put a tarp over entire bow of the boat now, to try keep the locker dry till I get a free dry day.......will also help my leaky forehatch which is going to have to come out and be resealed methinks!

Great thing about driving rain.....you find out where all the little leaks are

Beware about mixing epoxy... If you mix too much, it can "exotherm" - i.e. the reaction between the hardener and the reason becomes exothermic, and you can finish up with a pot of smoking resin that will be very hot. I mixed some up in an plastic old sandwich box at a depth of about 1.5" and had to throw it onto the middle of the back lawn! My personal preference is to use paper coffee cups, an mix up about half a cup at a time. For the pushpit glassing over job, there were two of us, one mixing, and one glassing, could have done it single handed, but because the glassing was laying on ones back, working overhead it was much easier.

 

[RupertW]

But if you never anchor overnight, do not consider tides and your bow roller is at sealevel then - you are quite correct.

I think this can be stated correctly as "if you do not consider tides" as for a lot of people - Med and most of Caribbean then tidal rise and fall is minimal so 8m is 8m (or as you imply 7m to allow for bow roller height) even at a very generous 5 x scope. I normally anchor overnight at 3 x scope due to swinging room in lovely but rather busy anchorages and haven't dragged in a squall yet. But limiting yourself to 11 or 12 metres depth isn't ideal although I wouldn't call it shallow, so I would still prefer a lot more chain and warp ideally.

If you require more than 3 x scope for overnighting you need heavier chain to get that catenary working (anchor not important as chain weight does the holding).

 

[Neeves]

Sarabande, sails out of SW England and I assume his comment was based on local conditions where they also have minimal tides - and I stood corrected.

Around Sydney tides at maximum are about 2m, in Bass Strait around 3m, just round the corner from Bass Strait, West Coast Tasmania, tides can be 30cm, central Queensland 10/12m - we need to think about tides.

Jonathan

 

[macd]

anchor not important as chain weight does the holding

Uh-oh. Incoming...

 

[Neeves]

Uh-oh. Incoming...

Its getting late here - so hiding under the bed seemed a judicious move

J

 

[RupertW]

Its getting late here - so hiding under the bed seemed a judicious move

J

I know, I shouldn't have, well done all for not biting.

 

[ghostlymoron]

The chain could pre date metric, from the pictures, it doesn't look particularly modern. However, as 3/8" is no longer available, the solution to the chain problem must be to get some 8mm and a new gypsy. 10mm is unfeasibly huge for a Countess. Still doesn't solve the leak though!

My thought, too. But no chain currently available seems to be made from 3/8" (9.5mm) wire. Even US 3/8" is actually 10mm.
Even so, link length and width is much more critical than wire diameter: the OP might find that offering the gypsy up at a chandlery will find something that fits. Also worth his checking out Vyv's page on chain: https://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Chaindefinitions.aspx

 

[Tim O]

If general opinion is that 10mm (or 9.5) is over-specified for a Countess, then that would sway me in the direction of replacing the gypsy and going for 8mm chain which is cheaper, lighter, and easier to come by second-hand too!

Any other Countess Owners out there?