Anchor fail

[zoidberg]

'Allegedly'......

S/y Dynamite.

No, no information about what type of anchor.....yet. aground at Penzance

But, the antifouling looks in good nick - and any fresh 'ruggiosities' should just buff out.

 

[Yngmar]

You'd expect there to be a chain dangling from the bow and leading towards the water, if "anchor fail" was indeed what's happened. Probably what actually happened was something entirely different!

 

[dom]

Oh dear, boat has had it if they can't pull it off as the tide returns. On the other hand high tides around 053017:30 and as the rescue was reported early in the morning the tides just might leave the boat dry up there (springs tomorrow), they might be able to crane it out, or they might even be able to pull it off depending on weather.

Someone here may even know how high the water rises there?

Hope it works out

 

[colhel]

Maybe the failure was not being able to deploy it.

 

[cherod]

Got some bad weather coming there i think , is that big low going his way ,,, i hope he is ok

 

[Hacker]

I think that the rope part of his rode parted. Council are craning it off later today.

 

[Channel Sailor]

Having looked at the pics on Cornwall Live, it does looks at if a rope rode broke at the bow. Rubbed through maybe. The yacht looks cruiser racer style so maybe a not particularly cruiser like bow roller on there. Also it has a racer style underwater shape so may have been dancing around the anchor to make matters worse.

I have trouble protecting my rope warp at the bow roller, I use a length of 1 3/4 inch re enforced hose with a split in it. But the hose often works its way around to expose the warp on the split, or sometimes I will check it and hose has sprung off. I have taken to tying the hose in place with a rolling hitch and clove hitches but it still works around to expose the warp at the split.

 

[Yngmar]

I have trouble protecting my rope warp at the bow roller, I use a length of 1 3/4 inch re enforced hose with a split in it. But the hose often works its way around to expose the warp on the split, or sometimes I will check it and hose has sprung off. I have taken to tying the hose in place with a rolling hitch and clove hitches but it still works around to expose the warp at the split.

You could use a rolling hitch and a snubber on the warp. That way the wear would be on the snubber, which is easier to replace. We even protect our snubber with a piece of firehose where it goes over the bow roller (no split, as always in the same position). In strong winds we use two in a bridle setup that go to the bow cleats instead of over the roller.

Back to the stricken boat, on the other photos it also looks like the shroud is resting on that guardrail and the lower spreader on that side is bending downwards slightly, so that rig is due an overhaul for sure. Hope they find a crane fast!

 

[dom]

You could use a rolling hitch and a snubber on the warp. That way the wear would be on the snubber, which is easier to replace. We even protect our snubber with a piece of firehose where it goes over the bow roller (no split, as always in the same position). In strong winds we use two in a bridle setup that go to the bow cleats instead of over the roller.

Good idea, just be aware that a rolling hitch can reduce the breaking strength of the line by up to 50%.

Not suggesting it's better, but when I use mixed rodes my preferred setup is to attach two ropes to the chain and then cleat off as a bridle to the bow cleats. Failing that, I just put a length of split hose over the rope rode and then tie the lot into the bow roller using a small diameter Dynema line. Seems to work well. Easy to whip on rope end stops if required.

 

[zoidberg]

They've craned her ashore and into the car park adjacent to where she washed up. See here.

From the pics there's no substantial damage evident, so the owner may well have had more luck than he might.

OTOH, I hope they'll have moved her away from the edge of the Esplanade, for there can be some very heavy seas driving over there.... and there's a proper storm on the way.

Lots of questions pop up.... not many answers as yet.

 

[dom]

They've craned her ashore and into the car park adjacent to where she washed up. See here.

From the pics there's no substantial damage evident, so the owner may well have had more luck than he might.

OTOH, I hope they'll have moved her away from the edge of the Esplanade, for there can be some very heavy seas driving over there.... and there's a proper storm on the way.

Lots of questions pop up.... not many answers as yet.

Fab result!

 

[TernVI]

They've craned her ashore and into the car park adjacent to where she washed up. See here.

From the pics there's no substantial damage evident,....

I reckon putting it down on those stacks of timber will do more damage than it suffered on the beach.
Unfortunately, probably not much alternative?

 

[Channel Sailor]

Yngmar I like that, a rolling hitch over the rode with a snubber line though the roller, where a hose without a split can be slipped over and secured in place. I have some spare octoplait that i could use. Thank you.

 

[zoidberg]

C'Sailor, our good friend Jon Neeves will shortly be along to encourage you to make your octoplait snubber the length of the boat ( back to a substantial stern cleat ) so you get the benefit of the 'stre-e-e-t-ch' and not just heavy jerks.
I reckon his arguments are sound and worth your consideration....

 

[mjcoon]

C'Sailor, our good friend Jon Neeves will shortly be along to encourage you to make your octoplait snubber the length of the boat ( back to a substantial stern cleat ) so you get the benefit of the 'stre-e-e-t-ch' and not just heavy jerks.
I reckon his arguments are sound and worth your consideration....

But with the extra movement you need to be certain of the protection of your hose!

 

[zoidberg]

But with the extra movement you need to be certain of the protection of your hose!

Yes.

Time-expired layflat firehose is widely available - and cheap as chips. It's easy enough to slip on a long-enough length. Just make sure to tie it on at both ends....

 

[Biggles Wader]

Looks like a 1970s Van der Stadt Pioneer 10. Little or no damage visible so very lucky to get away with that.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

C'Sailor, our good friend Jon Neeves will shortly be along to encourage you to make your octoplait snubber the length of the boat ( back to a substantial stern cleat ) so you get the benefit of the 'stre-e-e-t-ch' and not just heavy jerks.
I reckon his arguments are sound and worth your consideration....

Calling @Neeves

 

[Neeves]

Apologies for my tardiness - we were on the water with no internet access.

I know why people had or have mixed rodes, they are lighter, cheaper and easier to retrieve if you don't have a windlass. But I have always wondered how you decide what length of chain and what length of rope to carry. If you race - its straight forward its written in the rules and as you are saving weight you will carry a minimum of chain - and will actually seldom use it.

A common piece of advice is that if you have a mixed rode you don't need a snubber as your textile portion of the rode will give you all the elasticity you need. I have never seen any data to support this idea as it will be sensible to have the textile portion whose strength is at least that of the chain for the yacht and, say, a piece of nylon with a UTS of 4t will have little or no elasticity at all when securing, say, a 10t yacht. You thus have no catenary, because you don't have much chain and you have no elasticity either - to me it seems the worst combination possible. Especially as many with a mixed rode will have opted for that choice because they have a performance yacht - which by definition means it will be flighty - yawing and horsing.

So for a mixed rode my recommendation is you still need a snubber, better still a bridle, and you choose the snubber/bridle for its elasticity not its strength. The more you can deploy the more elasticity you have to play with. You can opt course deploy from the bow but terminating from the transom means that, maybe, 10m of your snubber is on board. In fact if you terminate your snubber at the transom and use your deck length, say 10m and have 2m beyond the bow - your snubber will be 12m - which is probably more than most people is see who actually use a snubber - so you would be well ahead.

With that 12m of say 10mm or 12mm dynamic climbing rope you would find the horse in quelled and the yawing at least cushioned - and this might persuade you to consider a bridle - and a longer one as well. Given that you should be able to source the climbing rope free of charge (who ever heard of a bit of free yacht kit that's also a safety device) I'm surprised more people don't take up the idea - but Hey!
- maybe boat owners are flusher than I thought!

Multihulls are the worst as their bridles look as if they are designed to allow the whole vessel to be lifted by the bridle - the idea of them being elastic is a bit of a joke.

'snubbing' is all about absorbing the energy developed by the yacht thrashing about and if you have a short snubber it needs to 'manage' all of the snubbing on its lonesome - better if it can be shared over a longer length and if you can design a bridle it will quell yawing.

The other advantage of the snubber might be that if abrasion is an issue - at least it is shared, if the snubber fails (surely you carry a spare?) the textile - that piece that is part of The Rode (which has the breaking strain of the chain, or slight more), is still there - and unused (or has suffered no abrasion..

Managing abrasion is not that difficult - its not rocket scenic, hose pipe, firehose, nylon tube tape and dyneeema tube tape all have roles.


The problem with the example Zoidberg brought to our attention is that we will probably never know. There is no need for an investigation, as no-one died, and we cannot thus learn from the misfortune of others.


A few years ago Vendee Globe I recall - one of the contestants stopped at Auckland Island in the deep south (no-where near Auckland). He deployed his Fortress and the rode was a few metres of chain and the rest textile ( the yachts are scutineered and he would have had whatever was dictated). He stopped off as the modification The Team had made to the WattnSea were not as good as expected and he needed to make repairs (and possibly have a decent sleep). He, the yacht, sawed through the textile part of the rode overnight (and lost his Fortress). He deployed his second Fortress and on leaving simply cut the rode and abandoned the anchor - textile needs to be protected from abrasion - and if you are ever down that way there are 2 x FX85 somewhere in Sandy Bay.

This is not entirely the fault of the skipper - Open 60's must be devil to park, if there is any wind or tide. They don't have bow rollers nor cleat and in fact nothing or very little to which you can secure a bridle, or a simple snubber (though I understand the ideal is a bridle) Retreive a rode and anchor on an Open 60, single handed, must be an equal or worse challenge.

Jonathan

 

[TernVI]

Stretchy stuff running over a fairlead etc is liable to chafe.
The more movement at the stress point, the more chance of chafe.
There is a danger that hiding the chafe with firehose or whatever will just mean you don't know about the chafe until it lets go.
It's much the same with a swinging mooring.
You can only have faith in your gear when you have watched it survive some weather with zero chafe.

I'm not sure exactly where this boat was anchored, but Penzance is not sheltered from the S unless you're right inside.
It's been blowing the limpets off the rocks this week. I imagine Penzance has been on the frisky side.
Big ships have been looking to be in the lee of something.
Finer points of anchor tackle may be moot.
There are limits to what it's sensible to expect.