Anchor chain catching on gyspy

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mattonthesea

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Three year old Lofrans royal windlass with 8mm gypsy. Old chain came with boat. Up until recently the chain dropped smoothly off into the pipe below. Intermittently it now catches and tries to jam under the gypsy.

Any ideas on how to treat?

Thanks
 
I don't know that particular windlass, but usually there's a "chain stripper" which ensures that the chain is forced off the gypsy, and then drops down the pipe into the chain locker. Maybe the stripper is missing.
 
As Richard says, maybe the chain is towering, common with old chain that is starting to rust, its does not slip and slide and simply bunches up and blocks the free fall of the chain. If the chain has not been used for a while it might have more rust than normal. The towers of chain are easy to knock over, a bit of broom handle is all that is needed - its just a bit of a faff.

If this is the problem - go and find an empty bit of seabed in shallows water say a metre under the keel, put the engine into a slow reverse and deploy the chain (minus anchor) across the seabed and simply move slowly aft, turn round and repeat. The sand will scrub the chain. Then retreive, go back 'home', wash the chain with fresh water and leave the hatch locker lid slightly open to allow the chain to air. Make sure when you have finished the reversing manoeuvre that the drain hole is not blocked, the locker can drain feely and the chain is not sitting on damp rope. When you use the chain try to wash with fresh water, rain will do.

You can do the same thing by taking the chain out of the locker and dragging it across a beach with a 4X4, or down a very quiet road - but if its 10mm chain it is unmanageable, but then so is 50m of 8mm chain.

If this solves the problem constant use of the chain and good house keeping will keep the rust at bay - it will still rust but you will be constant cleaning it by using it. Inevitably you will need to regalvanise or buy new. If you buy new then is the time to consider smaller chain. When we reached chain that was really manky we downsize the chain. If you decide to re-galvanise it really needs a group of you to regal and batch of chain, you will get a better price from the galvaniser - so watch threads for people wanting to regal.

I only know one who will be sympathetic (note I am commenting from Oz - so hardly a local expert, or expert at all) but Highland Galvanisers in Scotland would be a place to start.

If you down size then you will need a new gypsy (they are not cheap and are a large part of the windlass cost) or a new windlass. You can save a lot of weight in the bow, or carry more chain - you also save a lot of space. None of the options are particularly cheap. Its worth investigating the options slowly )you have time now, rather than make quick decisions that you might later regret. If you go the small chain route - depends on your chain size - but Jimmy Green will be a place to go and number of forum members have done this - its not new! and you will get some support and comments.

So first up have a look in the locker and report back.

Jonathan
 
Finally got to check out the chain in the light of other threads. Basically I think I've got the Simpson Lawrence chain on an 8mm gypsy. Within four links the chain does not sit in the gypsy. When we use the chain a lot it gets smoother so runs better but a few days in the locker and it's not happy again.

Hmm. New chain methinks; or put up with the slight hassle

Thanks all
 
mattonthesea said:
Finally got to check out the chain in the light of other threads. Basically I think I've got the Simpson Lawrence chain on an 8mm gypsy. Within four links the chain does not sit in the gypsy. When we use the chain a lot it gets smoother so runs better but a few days in the locker and it's not happy again.

Hmm. New chain methinks; or put up with the slight hassle
Click to expand...

If you decide to buy new chain, take the gypsy off the winch and ask the chain supplier to specify chain which correctly fits the gypsy. That way, you have some comeback if the new chain does run smoothly.
 
mattonthesea said:
Finally got to check out the chain in the light of other threads. Basically I think I've got the Simpson Lawrence chain on an 8mm gypsy. Within four links the chain does not sit in the gypsy. When we use the chain a lot it gets smoother so runs better but a few days in the locker and it's not happy again.

Hmm. New chain methinks; or put up with the slight hassle

Thanks all
Click to expand...


What is Simpson Lawrence chain? I think I may have the same problem. I had an SL Seawolf windlass which died, fitted a Lofrans Royal with 5/16 / 8mm gypsy and after four links the chain jams on the gypsy.

- W
 
webcraft said:
What is Simpson Lawrence chain? I think I may have the same problem. I had an SL Seawolf windlass which died, fitted a Lofrans Royal with 5/16 / 8mm gypsy and after four links the chain jams on the gypsy.

- W
Click to expand...
sounds exactly the same. Apparently SL made or sourced their own chain which is different to all others!
 
Simpson Lawrence has not be in existence for years, replaced by Lewmar, the chain must be ancient (and maybe a credit to SL that it has lasted so long). I'm too young to recall when SL was consumed and became Lewmar (and why they stopped using a well respected name remains a mystery, that still commands respect) but it may not be that the SL chain was unique - its might just have been a standard then replaced by new metric specification that we know today.

I just wonder - how do you know its SL chain? Is it stamped as such?

I'm surprised that a gypsy is built to handle 5/16th" and 8mm chain as they are very different as the 5/16" link is significantly longer than a metric link. Again is the gypsy actually stamped confirming that it fits both 5/16th" and 8mm - or is this hearsay

Jonathan
 
a lofrans gypsy will have stamped the size on the visible side (no need to even remove it) just turn it slowly until you see the numbers. At least both my 8mm and 10mm ISO ones are!
Very often electrolysis between the ss stripper and the alloy body of the windlass means that stripper falls off the gypsy (on my Tigres that meant a hole in the casing out of which the gearbox oil would drain to the deck!) doubt that's the case on a vertical one though.
 
My conclusion is only supposition ?
The gypsy is defo 8mm.
My old SL windlass broke so I replaced it with an incorrect assumption that the chain would fit because, often, 8mm and 5/8" are interchangeable.
Since reading another thread I took a length true 5/8" and layed it next to my anchor chain. To my untrained eye they look different. At this point I realised I had a choice put up or buy new; influenced by emotional state I based my conclusion on incomplete data. To science I beg forgiveness ?
 
Even to an untrained eye 8mm and 5/8th" would be different - I assume the error is you actually mean 5/16th". :)

Sorry could not resist :)

There are a number of specs for imperial chains, all ostensibly the same wire sizes - but G30 5/16th" is a different size specification to BBB and G43, though G43 and G70 are similar. Metric chain is so much simpler (apart from 10mm) but 8mm is the same link dimension whether G30 through to G100 (G120 is different :( ).

Jonathan
 
This is 5/16th" (3 links) and 8mm (5 links)

I should have stretched the links but if you take account of the fact they are not stretched you can see the links are different sizes and the wire is also different - which explains why you cannot use, with any hope of success, a 5/16th" chain with a 8mm gypsy, or vice versa


IMG_9345.jpeg


Jonathan
 
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Neeves said:
This is 5/16th" (3 links) and 8mm (5 links)

I should have stretched the links but if you take account of the fact they are not stretched you can see the links are different sizes and the wire is also different - which explains why you cannot use, with any hope of success, a 5/16th" chain with a 8mm gypsy, or vice versa


View attachment 122602


Jonathan
Click to expand...
Neeves said:
This is 5/16th" (3 links) and 8mm (5 links)

I should have stretched the links but if you take account of the fact they are not stretched you can see the links are different sizes and the wire is also different - which explains why you cannot use, with any hope of success, a 5/16th" chain with a 8mm gypsy, or vice versa


View attachment 122602


Jonathan
Click to expand...
The links may well be different lengths, but 5/16" is 7.935mm, so I doubt if you could tell that difference.
 
NormanS said:
The links may well be different lengths, but 5/16" is 7.935mm, so I doubt if you could tell that difference.
Click to expand...

Very easy if you have callipers - and its the length of the links that is critical as the pockets are designed for specific link spacings. This why you take a few links and wrap them round the pockets in the gypsy (rather than measuring the wire size).


In fact the wire size is 'academic' it would be quite possible to make a chain using 5/16th or 8mm wire to a 10mm or 3/8th" link size specification and if you could accomodate the variation in length of the link caused by the wire diameter then that link made from smaller wire would fit the pockets in the, larger, gypsy. Chain is already made to this sort of dimension - called (very imaginatively) long link.

G120 chain is made to this sort of fudge - it is made with wire to the nominal metric size of say 8mm but 10% larger in diameter, so the specification is EN818 + 10%. Its a G100 wire but the extra 10% of diameter allows the chain to achieve G120 tensile strength. To further confuse Gunnebo take this same chain, the G120, and galvanise it and make a G80 chain for aquaculture - which is then described as G80 to an EN818 spec + 10%. Sadly it costs rather a lot of money and I don't know if the extra 10% means it will not fit a 8mm gypsy.

Jonathan
 
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Did I read somewhere that chain may best be measured over 10 links?
10 links of mine measures 250mm.
My Nic 32 is 56 years old and I imagine the rusty chain and anchor are original and imperial
Nick
 
I'd be true amazed if you have chain whose galvanising has lasted 56 years - unless it has been largely unused, or regalvanised a number of times.

I don't know when metric chain was introduced and became accepted in the UK but check the windlass gypsy - the size will be embossed or engraved 'somewhere', commonly on the face of the 2 plates. It is sometimes on the circumference of the plates, - in which case you don't need to take the gypsy off and then apart. Once you find out the size then measure some of the links for the wire size - 10% loss of diameter is commonly taken as indication that the chain needs to be replaced. Measure a number of links, abrasion will occur on the seabed and 'inside' the crowns. My guess is the bitter end has been the anchor end as surely the chain will have been end for ended - but measure the least rusty links as well - they might give better measure of the original chain. Remember the sizes are nominal - so 5/16th" or 8mm plus or minus (If you web search for, NACM, National Association of China Makers they give the variations in sizes allowed, now - but not for 56 years ago. Note that - I'm guessing now - some of the current NACM specs may not have been dreamt about 56 years ago. The old spec was BBB - but I don't know if that was a UK spec.

I've never heard of a 56 year old chain!

Jonathan
 
Thanks Neeves.
My chain looks as if it might well have been 'end for ended'.
I suspect the chain is not so worn as to merit replacement of the basis of dodgy tensile integrity.
However, it leaves a right mess when it's flaked out astern down the side deck (to avoid any 'nose down' embarrassment when drying out against a harbour wall}.
 
nickjones said:
Thanks Neeves.
My chain looks as if it might well have been 'end for ended'.
I suspect the chain is not so worn as to merit replacement of the basis of dodgy tensile integrity.
However, it leaves a right mess when it's flaked out astern down the side deck (to avoid any 'nose down' embarrassment when drying out against a harbour wall}.
Click to expand...

I too lazy to check, length - but if the chain is not too long - take to the nearest beach and drag across the sand - the abrasion will take the rust off, repeat monthly. If you use the chain to anchor regularly - this will happen anyway. But it sounds as is aesthetics will dictate when some remedial action is needed. I once tried painting - compare waste of time - the chain keeps rusting and then you have rust AND paint flakes and a chain that no galvaniser wants to touch - because of the paint (so don't be tempted).

Take care, good luck

Jonathan
 
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