An idea for remote boat controls - mad, or what?

[MapisM]

My chief mate (AKA swmbo) is in the process of recovering from a foot fracture, and in the check she just made, the doctor advised to avoid making any efforts on it for some time.
This got me thinking again about half an idea which was already swirling around in my head since I bought the new to me boat: adding some mean of controlling remotely the sticks and the thrusters, in order to be able to help with the lines while maneuvering.
The boat has mechanical levers (separate, two for each engine). The gear levers works by pushing/pulling steel cables directly connected to the inverters. A very simple and straightforward system, which I actually like more than electronic levers, but let's not go into that - each to their own.

Yacht Controller (and other similar systems) work on the principle of interfacing a receiver to the control unit of electronic throttles, hence making it possible to command the gearbox actuators of the electronic throttles from a remote, rather than from the fixed stations. But I neither like the complications nor the costs of converting to electronic throttles just for the sake of adding a remote control.

So, I was wondering if there is such thing as some sort of 24V actuator that can be attached directly to the gearbox lever, moving it in its three positions as if it would be pushed/pulled by the steel cable.
I suppose that if such thing exists, in principle it should be just a matter of attaching it securely to the gearbox and make it remotely controllable. Adding the thrusters control with the same remote shouldn't be a big deal, either (just a matter of electrical contacts, which I guess a simple relais can handle).
Obviously, I don't need any remote control of throttles - the thing would be strictly meant for maneuvering.
Coming to think of it, as I recall also the Yacht Controller doesn't control throttle, in fact...

Wadduthink guys, is it silly to even think about this, or what?

 

[Richard.C]

It would appear this is what you are looking for Mapis:

http://www.yachtcontroller.com/yamas

Probably rather expensive from Yacht Controller though.

My chief mate (AKA swmbo) is in the process of recovering from a foot fracture, and in the check she just made, the doctor advised to avoid making any efforts on it for some time.
This got me thinking again about half an idea which was already swirling around in my head since I bought the new to me boat: adding some mean of controlling remotely the sticks and the thrusters, in order to be able to help with the lines while maneuvering.
The boat has mechanical levers (separate, two for each engine). The gear levers works by pushing/pulling steel cables directly connected to the inverters. A very simple and straightforward system, which I actually like more than electronic levers, but let's not go into that - each to their own.

Yacht Controller (and other similar systems) work on the principle of interfacing a receiver to the control unit of electronic throttles, hence making it possible to command the gearbox actuators of the electronic throttles from a remote, rather than from the fixed stations. But I neither like the complications nor the costs of converting to electronic throttles just for the sake of adding a remote control.

So, I was wondering if there is such thing as some sort of 24V actuator that can be attached directly to the gearbox lever, moving it in its three positions as if it would be pushed/pulled by the steel cable.
I suppose that if such thing exists, in principle it should be just a matter of attaching it securely to the gearbox and make it remotely controllable. Adding the thrusters control with the same remote shouldn't be a big deal, either (just a matter of electrical contacts, which I guess a simple relais can handle).
Obviously, I don't need any remote control of throttles - the thing would be strictly meant for maneuvering.
Coming to think of it, as I recall also the Yacht Controller doesn't control throttle, in fact...

Wadduthink guys, is it silly to even think about this, or what?

 

[Nigelpickin]

Of course - skyhook would work well for you....I’ll get my coat

 

[MapisM]

It would appear this is what you are looking for Mapis:
http://www.yachtcontroller.com/yamas
Probably rather expensive from Yacht Controller though.

Many thanks.
Coming to think of it, I think I already came across this yamas thing, somehow (web or magazines, can't remember).
But as you say, I fear that it ain't exactly cheap... Knowing both YC and Glendinning pricing policy, ridiculously expensive is likely to be more appropriate!

Besides, from a technical viewpoint, I don't get the need for the added complexity of engaging/disengaging the lever controls.
I mean, assuming to leave the cables running straight to the gearbox lever as they are, why shouldn't it be feasible to attach directly also an actuator, and let the existing cables move whenever the gearbox is controlled by the actuator?

Let me explain that a bit further:
in my current setup, the levers positions of the internal and flybridge helm are directly connected, hence constantly mirrored in real time - another thing I like of mechanic throttles, btw.
Therefore, it already happens that if someone moves one lever downstair, the upper lever moves without anyone touching it (and the same goes for the other way round).
By introducing a third control through an actuator inside the e/r, obviously what would happen is that both levers would move without touching them, whenever the gear is controlled by the remote+actuator. But... So what?

If anyone see a logical need for introducing the added complexity of electronic clutches to engage/release the manual cables when the actuator is turned off/on (as that Glendinning "yamas" actuator seems to work), I'm all ears.

 

[MapisM]

Of course - skyhook would work well for you....I’ll get my coat

PS: btw, neither the skyhook nor a joystick, as such, would offer the remote operability I'm looking for.
Or does VP offer also some sort of remote/radio joystick? If yes, I've yet to see it.

 

[vas]

Many thanks.
Coming to think of it, I think I already came across this yamas thing, somehow (web or magazines, can't remember).
But as you say, I fear that it ain't exactly cheap... Knowing both YC and Glendinning pricing policy, ridiculously expensive is likely to be more appropriate!

Besides, from a technical viewpoint, I don't get the need for the added complexity of engaging/disengaging the lever controls.
I mean, assuming to leave the cables running straight to the gearbox lever as they are, why shouldn't it be feasible to attach directly also an actuator, and let the existing cables move whenever the gearbox is controlled by the actuator?

Let me explain that a bit further:
in my current setup, the levers positions of the internal and flybridge helm are directly connected, hence constantly mirrored in real time - another thing I like of mechanic throttles, btw.
Therefore, it already happens that if someone moves one lever downstair, the upper lever moves without anyone touching it (and the same goes for the other way round).
By introducing a third control through an actuator inside the e/r, obviously what would happen is that both levers would move without touching them, whenever the gear is controlled by the remote+actuator. But... So what?

If anyone see a logical need for introducing the added complexity of electronic clutches to engage/release the manual cables when the actuator is turned off/on (as that Glendinning "yamas" actuator seems to work), I'm all ears.

+1000

my mechanical controls are exactly like that and IMHO the only way you should consider such a tool is by simply introducing a beefy servo that will be able to move both controls and the gearbox lever by itself. Further, it should also be able to accept someone moving the f/b or lower helm control and allow the movement.

doubt something overly difficult and surely something you can hack with an arduino or a raspberry if you get BIG enough servos...

cheers

V.

 

[MapisM]

Further, it should also be able to accept someone moving the f/b or lower helm control and allow the movement.

Absolutely correct.
I didn't think of it, but of course since the actuator would be permanently attached to the g/box lever, it has to allow the "normal" lever movements freely.
Otoh, from a functional viewpoint, there's no need to leave the actuator on at all time - rather the opposite, in fact: it makes more sense that the remote/receiver/actuator are only turned on when needed, i.e. for maneuvering.
So, ideally the actuator should be man enough to move the lever + cable when in use, but make no resistance when turned off.
Not sure if such thing already exists, but it shouldn't be rocket science, I reckon...

I love the idea of an Arduino interface!
No need for a separate remote, just pick your mobile phone and control gear+thrusters.
And thinking of what BartW already did on BA, also the passerelle could be included in the same app...
...in the hope that nobody calls you while docking!

 

[jfm]

Could easily be done. You would need a pair of 24v linear actuators with a stop position at centre of stroke as well as at ends. Linak.
Then a swinging arm device say 300mm radius to take the linear motion down to an axis.
Then a 24v rotary clutch
Then a catalog remote device that operates enough relays- maybe 6
And a custom made mechanical/bracket arrange the at the gearboxes. Apart from that, all catalogue items

 

[MapisM]

Could easily be done.
...

LOL, I love your concept of "easily" J, followed by such shopping list...
I agree though, in principle I also think that it could be done at a fraction of the cost of that Glendinning/YachtControl solution.
Which looks very nice and solid, anyway. I'll try to find out its cost, but I'm not holding my breath.

By chance, do you also have an idea about whether those Linak actuators (or any others) comply with the requirement of being strong enough to move the g/box lever pulling also the cables and the sticks attached to them, while letting free movement when turned off?

PS: or on second thought, did you include the rotary clutch specifically to disengage the actuator when not in use, maybe?

 

[PCUK]

Radio controlled model boat equipment and electric wheelchair parts will do the job very cheaply and reliably. My mate was thinking of radio control for his own boat, but he is an expert at this.

 

[prv]

By chance, do you also have an idea about whether those Linak actuators (or any others) comply with the requirement of being strong enough to move the g/box lever pulling also the cables and the sticks attached to them, while letting free movement when turned off?

Linak have units that are far, far stronger than you need - they raise masts, large hatch lids, etc. I don't know about the back-drive-ability though - all the ones I've worked with would be locked when not moving. Hence the separate clutch.

Pete

 

[MapisM]

Thanks folks, that's definitely some food for thought! :encouragement:

 

[BartW]

out of the box idea;
let S do the maneuvering and you do the ropes

 

[jfm]

Linak have units that are far, far stronger than you need - they raise masts, large hatch lids, etc. I don't know about the back-drive-ability though - all the ones I've worked with would be locked when not moving. Hence the separate clutch.

Pete

Exactly.

 

[Pinnacle]

out of the box idea;
let S do the maneuvering and you do the ropes

Love it!

 

[rustybarge]

I used to fly RC planes, and I remember reading about massively large models with multiple engines, flaps and undercarriages; What they did was use standard sized servos , but they ' piggy-backed' large servos on top to work the big control surfaces.

Basically a varable potentiometer was fixed onto the standard servo, which then transfered its exact position to the large servo which did the hard work. No complicated electronics gizmos were necessary as every servo has a linear electric motor which will copy the position of the variable resister driving it with a simple circuit.

The RC 2.4ghz band is used by cranes and other critical equipment, so would be a very cheap way of controlling the servos; you can buy a complete system at very reasonable cost.

Here's the circuit: http://www.instructables.com/id/Simple-Servo-Tester/

 

[MapisM]

out of the box idea;
let S do the maneuvering and you do the ropes

That's actually a good suggestion, B.
In fact, S is also licensed to helm boats up to 24m (her license is coastal and mine unlimited, but of course that's irrelevant for maneuvering).
The only reasons why she never bothered learning to maneuver the old lady is because on one hand she wasn't interested and had no need, but otoh she also knew that with no thrusters there wasn't much room for recovering any mistakes.
Now, with the extreme luxury of thrusters on both ends, she might well reconsider...
...though... hang on a minute... coming to think of it, I'm not sure I would want that!