adey
Well-Known Member
I guess I see ex charter boats in the same light as ex rental cars. 
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An honest opinion please, If I......
- Thread starter Sishoe
- Start date
Eren
Well-Known Member
+1
There is a major plus of chartered boats and also a major minus. The plus is, if managed well, there is a continious reporting of failures of the boat and there is an efficient repair team behind the curtains. So there is a continious effort to keep the boat tip top. The minus is, the boat arrives at 5pm on Friday and will leave at 2 pm next day. There is very limited time to solve problems. Lets say a new windlass is needed. The installed one is 1700 watts but the only one left at the local dealer is 1400 watts. They buy the 1400 watt one and let it go. Or if Lewmar is EUR 2000 and Quick is EUR 1600, they buy the cheap one. After a couple of years of chartering and similar stories, the boat is full of cheap or non-genuine replacements, quickly but not properly covered problems. Of course there can be exclusions, but this is usually the picture in the commercial chartering world. Therefore, yes, a chartered boat should be considerably cheaper than non-chartered boats.
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
I'd buy the quick one for my non charter boat....
ari
Well-Known Member
Eren
Well-Known Member
Quick and Lewmar had been given as examples. No offense to any of those. And may be Quick is better than Lewmar. I also have Quick in my boat. No problems.
Eren
Well-Known Member
Yes we do go for cheaper options as well. For example I can choose either Quick or Lewmar for my windlass. Both of them are above good standards. But would you buy a cheap cheap Chinese made windlass for your own boat? I don't think so. And I am now talking about easily visible things like a windlass. How about some electric job done by a non-competant electrician because that all the proper electricians are busy at that Friday evening or Saturday morning, at the period that is between the two clients? A new buyer can easily see the cheap windlass, but a bad work done by a non-competent electrician may be caught by a very careful surveyor, if the buyer is lucky.
I know that there may be many forumites who have bought or thinking about buying chartered boats. I also know that there are forumites who are in charter business either personally or fully commercially. No offence to anyone. Going back to the start of this discussion, I claim that, yes, chartered boats should be paid lower than non-chartered ones, unless the seller strongly proves that the boat was kept in very good condition. Otherwise, selling chartered boats cheaper than non-chartered ones is the usual practice in the market, to my best knowledge.
Sorry for the thread drift. Going back to the original thread, IMHO 900 hours is quite normal for a boat of this age and I would buy it if it was well looked after.
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but that still strikes me as a weird, and more formal than objective criteria.
I'd rather rely on my own (or my surveyor's) evaluations anyway, than on what the seller pretends or can prove - regardless of what the boat has been used for.
Otoh, if you are saying that a "chartered boat" label can be a somewhat valid argument for negotiating the price, well, that's another story.
Pretty much the same as the "VAT paid" label - in fact, while I was searching a used boat, I was hoping to find one whose "VAT paid" status could NOT be proved, in order to haggle over the price a bit...
PS: for the records, I have ZERO interest in charter business, or in the resale prices of charter boats.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Weird, formal or whatever, you can tell whether a boat has been regularly chartered the minute you step on to it because all the soft furnishings and woodwork will look well used and thats something even a good skipper and crew can do nothing about. Similarly all the domestic equipment such as fridges, TVs, lighting, freshwater and toilet systems will be equally well used. Bringing all that lot up to a good standard is going to cost a lot of money. Perversely, the mechanical systems are probably going to be the least of your problems because they will have probably benefited from the regular use
Personally I've always walked away from boats that are obvious charter boats because the hassle of bringing them up to a standard which is acceptable to me would be too much and thats even if they are considerably cheaper than the market average
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Well, fwiw I've seen a couple of ex-charter boats which went through regular and extremely professional refittings throughout their life.
And one of them particularly (an Akhir) was simply stunning - with ABT zero speed fin stabs, glass bridge dashboard, brand new C32 Cat engines... the list was endless.
Very similar btw to the one which was moored on our stbd side in S. Maria Navarrese last summer: the one that you struggled to believe that was wooden built!
Maybe those two boats I came across were just exceptions proving the rule, but what I'm arguing against is the logic chartered=cheaper no matter what.
In my simple mind, the correct logic is bad=cheaper.
Whether it's also true that chartered=bad, remains to be seen, even if it can be true most of the time.
And one of them particularly (an Akhir) was simply stunning - with ABT zero speed fin stabs, glass bridge dashboard, brand new C32 Cat engines... the list was endless.
Very similar btw to the one which was moored on our stbd side in S. Maria Navarrese last summer: the one that you struggled to believe that was wooden built!
Maybe those two boats I came across were just exceptions proving the rule, but what I'm arguing against is the logic chartered=cheaper no matter what.
In my simple mind, the correct logic is bad=cheaper.
Whether it's also true that chartered=bad, remains to be seen, even if it can be true most of the time.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Well yes if an ex charter boat gets a massive refit, then of course it becomes an attractive proposition but the fact that most dont and are simply put on the market in their existing ex charter condition probably says that for most boats the cost of a refit exceeds the uplift in value
markc
Well-Known Member
I bought a Fairline 40 back in 1998 with 3000 hours on the engines - I drove a hard bargain. I kept the boat for 3 years and only real work that was needed on the engines was the replacement of the turbos and cleaning out the intercoolers. Sold it for 40% more than I paid for it, so if you buy right you'll sell right, however many hours on them.
Sishoe
Well-Known Member
A little update on this,
I didn't purchase the boat in the end (08 Phantom 48) as the seller withdrew the boat from sale and sold privately to someone else.
Despite all the encouragement on here, I was still concerned I might be buying a bit of a dog at too higher price, and would pay the price when I sold on. So after the initial disappointment, I think I may of had a lucky escape.
They say Everything happens for a reason, and shortly after a stunning Targa 64 became available at a good price, deal was done, surveys all good, and touch wood the sale will complete middle of next week.
I know it's big, and won't be able to just turn up and get in marinas, but I've never tried that anyway and always booked well in advance with my previous 40something ft boats.
Fitted with Cat c18's with relatively low hours, so all good.
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoMBqVrTEKbppiA0YCHobw327ZrN
More photos once sale completed.
I didn't purchase the boat in the end (08 Phantom 48) as the seller withdrew the boat from sale and sold privately to someone else.
Despite all the encouragement on here, I was still concerned I might be buying a bit of a dog at too higher price, and would pay the price when I sold on. So after the initial disappointment, I think I may of had a lucky escape.
They say Everything happens for a reason, and shortly after a stunning Targa 64 became available at a good price, deal was done, surveys all good, and touch wood the sale will complete middle of next week.
I know it's big, and won't be able to just turn up and get in marinas, but I've never tried that anyway and always booked well in advance with my previous 40something ft boats.
Fitted with Cat c18's with relatively low hours, so all good.
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoMBqVrTEKbppiA0YCHobw327ZrN
More photos once sale completed.
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markc
Well-Known Member
Congratulations! she looks lovely!
Phildorset
Well-Known Member
very nice.
Otter
Well-Known Member
Wow! That's not a large yacht it's a small ship - I bet she's absolutely fantastic to be on board and a commanding presence of the water as well.
Firefly625
Well-Known Member
Congrats on new boat, she looks lovely.... if not a bit huge..
but weird init... its all about history for me.
Current boat done around 1850hrs as of Wednesday when VolvoPaul suffered intolerable heat and my chatter & serviced it. I have a wad of invoices for engine servicing without a year missed since the boat was new. Some years when the boat had done higher hrs it was serviced twice. I will take my engine over a 500hr one without history every day of the week.
But then I know I am odd...
but weird init... its all about history for me.
Current boat done around 1850hrs as of Wednesday when VolvoPaul suffered intolerable heat and my chatter & serviced it. I have a wad of invoices for engine servicing without a year missed since the boat was new. Some years when the boat had done higher hrs it was serviced twice. I will take my engine over a 500hr one without history every day of the week.
But then I know I am odd...
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Firefly625
Well-Known Member
Paul
Always lovely to catch up with you, we tend to be on the same wavelength, so I have always thought we have got on well and I consider you a friend. The fact you are just a master at wielding spanners makes the day you service my boat a really enjoyable one!