An American view of the RNLI

[rotrax]

Not true I have drunk excellent beer in the US in the very brewery it was made in. Some of our transatlantic cousins are finding that real beer (not real ale I think that is still a step to far for them) is a good drink and can cost no more that the stuff I mentioned before and its look alikes. The advent of the micro brewery has made some very nice brews available if you know where to look

I can second that, drunk excellent beers from micro-breweries in Wisconsin and Michigan. The normal stuff is not very good at all. I found draught Staropramen (Prague Beer) in a Miami beach bar once. I was telling the barkeep how pleased I was to find it and how good it was, so he tried some-he had never bothered as is was foreign rubbish! He became an instant convert and within a few days it became his biggest selling line. American Bud is but a shadow of the Czech Budvar-apparently some Czech expats in the 1800's started making Czech style beer and it was pretty good. However, the money men became involved and it deteriated to what it is now. I firmly believe, after more than 50 years exhaustive trials that Czech beers are amongst the best in the world. I have a 1.5 litre bottle of "Radagast"- a Moravian beer and 5 cans of "Zlaty Bazant"-Golden Pheasant-from Slovakia in stock at the moment. I dont expect they will last long!

 

[prv]

Not true I have drunk excellent beer in the US in the very brewery it was made in. Some of our transatlantic cousins are finding that real beer (not real ale I think that is still a step to far for them) is a good drink

+1

There are very interesting things going on the US brewing world, have been for some years.

The vast majority of what's drunk across the country is still pish though

Pete

 

[dharl]

What happened to the old trick I learnt at Scouts - taught to me by grandfather when I was only 7?

Take your analogue watch, make sure it is on sun time e.g. if it is on BST push it back an hour in the UK, aim the hour hand at the sun - 12 is pointing due South. Should work in the Southern Hemisphere - it'll just point North!

thats a good one....of course when you are Mid Atlantic remember to calulate the Local Mean Time for your Longitude first!

 

[Keen_Ed]

The point is that English people have a near absolute right, in front of their own government, to make or buy any kind of seagoing craft and go out to sea in her, and the State neither taxes nor regulates this in any way, and does not demand any kind of registration, nor any kind of qualifications

I thought that once your boat is over 60', things change and registration is required?

 

[maxi77]

+1


The vast majority of what's drunk across the country is still pish though

Pete

I haven't heard some being that complimentary about US beer for a long time

 

[Litotes]

It's more like the UK makes an exception to international regulations for boating in its own home waters.

Am I missing something? Are there really "international" regulations regarding the registration of leisure craft. That is to say, regulations that are internationally agreed and binding, like the IRPCS, rather than those imposed at the national, or, in the case of the USA, State, level?

Could you point out where they are to be found?

 

[chanelyacht]

Am I missing something? Are there really "international" regulations regarding the registration of leisure craft. That is to say, regulations that are internationally agreed and binding, like the IRPCS, rather than those imposed at the national, or, in the case of the USA, State, level?

Could you point out where they are to be found?

There aren't any - other than SOLAS, IRPCS, etc.

The UK haven't opted out of anything, we just chose not to regulate pleasure boating.

 

[Litotes]

There aren't any - other than SOLAS, IRPCS, etc.

The UK haven't opted out of anything, we just chose not to regulate pleasure boating.

Thank you. That's what I thought. Had there been any such regulations, I would certainly have expected to have come across them by now.

 

[prv]

Am I missing something? Are there really "international" regulations regarding the registration of leisure craft. That is to say, regulations that are internationally agreed and binding, like the IRPCS, rather than those imposed at the national, or, in the case of the USA, State, level?

Could you point out where they are to be found?

I think what you're looking for is the UN Convention on the High Seas. This says (so I'm told; I haven't read it myself) that vessels must have a flag state, and if they voyage outside the territorial waters of their own state they must carry documentation from that state saying that they are of that state. Hence the Small Ships Register, as a minimal way of fulfilling this when visiting abroad.

Pete

 

[prv]

Are there really "international" regulations regarding the registration of leisure craft.

There aren't any - other than SOLAS, IRPCS, etc.

Try this. Article Five. I'm pretty sure the UK is a party to that treaty.

Not leisure craft specifically, but they're also not exempted.

(Not that I think we should tighten up our adherence to the Convention!)

Pete

 

[Litotes]

I think what you're looking for is the UN Convention on the High Seas. This says (so I'm told; I haven't read it myself) that vessels must have a flag state, and if they voyage outside the territorial waters of their own state they must carry documentation from that state saying that they are of that state. Hence the Small Ships Register, as a minimal way of fulfilling this when visiting abroad.

Pete

Thank you too. I'm afraid it didn't occur to me that Sybarite had that in mind, as the UK has clearly NOT "opted out" of that one, providing, as it does, two ways to fulfil its requirements.

Our "papers" (Part 1 registration, VHF license etc.) are always on board, but the only time the ensign gets an airing is when we venture out of territorial waters.

 

[Litotes]

Try this. Article Five. I'm pretty sure the UK is a party to that treaty.

Pete

And, again, thanks. As I mentioned in my reply to pvb, the UK clearly does comply with the Convention (whose requirements I have known about for many years, of course) It "provides the means" and the documentation as stated.

So, to put it bluntly, Sybarite, I'm afraid you've got this wrong.

 

[Sybarite]

There aren't any - other than SOLAS, IRPCS, etc.

The UK haven't opted out of anything, we just chose not to regulate pleasure boating.

Montego Bay Convention 1982 Art 91 para 2:

Article 91

Nationality of ships

1. Every State shall fix the conditions for the grant of its nationality to ships, for the registration of ships in its territory, and for the right to fly its flag. Ships have the nationality of the State whose flag they are entitled to fly. There must exist a genuine link between the State and the ship.

2. Every State shall issue to ships to which it has granted the right to fly its flag documents to that effect.

ie the documents being either the Part 1 or the SSR which countries outside the UK will insist upon and where you will be fined if you cannot present them.

Therefore the UK derogates from International regulations as far as its home waters are concerned.

 

[Sybarite]

I can second that, drunk excellent beers from micro-breweries in Wisconsin and Michigan. The normal stuff is not very good at all. I found draught Staropramen (Prague Beer) in a Miami beach bar once. I was telling the barkeep how pleased I was to find it and how good it was, so he tried some-he had never bothered as is was foreign rubbish! He became an instant convert and within a few days it became his biggest selling line. American Bud is but a shadow of the Czech Budvar-apparently some Czech expats in the 1800's started making Czech style beer and it was pretty good. However, the money men became involved and it deteriated to what it is now. I firmly believe, after more than 50 years exhaustive trials that Czech beers are amongst the best in the world. I have a 1.5 litre bottle of "Radagast"- a Moravian beer and 5 cans of "Zlaty Bazant"-Golden Pheasant-from Slovakia in stock at the moment. I dont expect they will last long!

The Americans usurped the Budweiser name. After the fall of communism, the Czech brewers successfully sewed the Americans for the recovery of the name which is why the American version is now called Bud.

PS Slovakian beer is not Czech! They are (again) separate countries.

 

[prv]

The Americans usurped the Budweiser name. After the fall of communism, the Czech brewers successfully sewed the Americans for the recovery of the name which is why the American version is now called Bud.

Actually the situation between the two varies country by country. Possibly the situation you describe is what pertains in France? In many other countries, Anheuser-Busch (the US baddies) exclusively owns Budweiser and the Czech version has to be sold as Budvar. In the UK, the courts said that they should both be able to use the Budweiser name, and they do. I think this compromise may be unique; most places one or the other owns the name exclusively.

Pete

 

[Litotes]

1. Every State shall fix the conditions for the grant of its nationality to ships, for the registration of ships in its territory, and for the right to fly its flag.

2. Every State shall issue to ships to which it has granted the right to fly its flag documents to that effect.

The UK has fixed the conditions as required (which is its right) and issues documentation as required. Unless there is something in the convention that imposes universal registration, then the UK has neither derogated nor "opted out".

 

[Wunja]

What happened to the old trick I learnt at Scouts - taught to me by grandfather when I was only 7?

Take your analogue watch, make sure it is on sun time e.g. if it is on BST push it back an hour in the UK, aim the hour hand at the sun - 12 is pointing due South. Should work in the Southern Hemisphere - it'll just point North!

Isn't it the bisector of the angle between 12 and the hour hand? The sun goes round the earth once in 24 hours; the hour hand of a watch goes round once in 12 hours.

Agree on the bisector. I was teaching that trick to the Cubs on Monday, but none of them had analogue watches

 

[Sybarite]

The UK has fixed the conditions as required (which is its right) and issues documentation as required. Unless there is something in the convention that imposes universal registration, then the UK has neither derogated nor "opted out".

Whatever. I am not entering yet again into a debate on this subject which ran for about 5000 posts over three major threads in the last 2/3 years.

 

[marklucas]

Isn't it the bisector of the angle between 12 and the hour hand? The sun goes round the earth once in 24 hours; the hour hand of a watch goes round once in 12 hours.

Yes it is - apologies - typing too fast on a tablet.

 

[Litotes]

Whatever. I am not entering yet again into a debate on this subject which ran for about 5000 posts over three major threads in the last 2/3 years.

Having seen you ducking and weaving through these lifeboat threads, that doesn't surprise me!