An American view of the RNLI

[prv]

This is something I think we should all think about, the problem I find with most MOB instruction is it does assume everything follows a plan, when things go wrong they usually get worse before they get better.

The problem I find is that it tends to assume a full school-boat or racing-boat crew, not two or three people. Many boats need two crew (helmsman and headsail sheets) to manoeuvre, then you're supposed to have a full-time lookout pointer and a radio operator down below chatting to the Coastguard - add the MOB himself and that's an original crew of five.

Pete

 

[King Penguin]

TBH I think I would focus on getting the casualty tied alongside the boat before sending a Mayday & then trying to get them back aboard knowing help was on the way to deal with a possibly hypothermic casualty & that they would be in a warm hospital bed while I would be still trying to get to a place of refuge to recover my composure.

Going below to send a Mayday could easily mean the rescue services were recovery a body, especially if the casualty had not been wearing bouancy of any sort. Throwing a marker & lifebelt have to be priorities, then getting them secured alongside - if calm water. In rough seas I think I would have to get them back aboard if I could before sending a Mayday.

Remember this scenario is only if there are no additional crew members to point at casualty, send Mayday etc.

There is an argument to suggest that if you are the only person left on board, a mayday call made early on will mean the rescue services arrive earlier to help.......ie, a husband or wife may struggle to get their partner back on board without assistance anyway and hypothermia will be more likely the longer the MOB is in the water. Speed is essential, hence, making the call early.

Perhaps this type of emergency highlights the value, as per the above post, of the hand-held VHF?

Another thought, if the skipper goes overboard do the crew know what to do and how to operate the VHF? - this perhaps highlights the importance of safety briefings for crew members and/or partners...................

 

[Deleted member 36384]

..... This is something I think we should all think about, the problem I find with most MOB instruction is it does assume everything follows a plan, when things go wrong they usually get worse before they get better.

I am sure people do think about it and have plans in place, perhaps more sailors than one may think, who knows? Its always a good idea to practice and develop a standard plan. Once one is competent at executing the standard plan, then dealing with variances is usually less problematic than winging it and changing the plan on the fly.

 

[binch]

US Coastguard

When we survived hurricane Alberto in the Gulf Stream, a lightning strike screwed the compass. 36 hours later a US Coastguard aeroplane flew over and we spoke to him on the hand-held.
Were we OK?
Yes, but we had no compass erviceable.
We asked him to fly over us in a true N-S direction and he did so.
That is pratctical help.
We later met him in Newport. He was the sort that cared. God bless.
(Apart from his over- flight, we did have an approx heading. I used always to log direction of swwell. That enabled us to get a heading within about 20 degrees.
Remember that!)

 

[chanelyacht]

It's not as simple as making a call "straight away". The first priority is to spot the MOB and turn the yacht around without loosing sight of the MOB. The act of making the mayday call may cause this priority to fail if the MOB is lost from sight.

I agree that assistance from the MCA via a mayday is paramount (and in nearly all cases a Mayday should be made) but the best people to pick up a MOB is the yacht and crew that the MOB came from.

Agree with all of the (and Pete's comment before it) - the mayday is important, but don't lose sight of the cas in the process.

Yes, it's a juggling act - and one I try to get our newbies to appreciate.

I really do like cockpit command mics

 

[prv]

Perhaps this type of emergency highlights the value, as per the above post, of the hand-held VHF?

The average handheld is going to be of considerably less value than the average fixed radio, though, as the latter has DSC and the former does not. So instead of just pressing a button you now have to direct part of your attention to a conversation. It's also going to be harder to give an accurate position unless near some good landmarks, whereas the DSC radio handles that automatically.

Large boats - remote mic. Small boats - mount the radio in reach of the cockpit.

Pete

 

[mikefleetwood]

Surely, in the case of MOB, especially with less experienced crew, it is better to know that help is on the way - than to be able to point exactly to the body when it's too late!

Shouldn't the drill be

1. stop engines/drop sails
2. call CG
3. wait (and try to re-establish contact with casualty if possible)

Boat and casualty shouldn't drift apart too much once stopped - at least resue services know where to start from. In any rough weather, you're soon going to loose sight of a bobbing head, no matter how hard you concentrate - and the minutes lost whilst trying could prove crucial!

Just "IMHO" of course.

 

[Searush]

We're miles off thread here, but it is useful to discuss.

H/H radios have much lower range than fixed, so there are many places where I sail where I could not raise the CG on a H/H.

I also don't have a new, waterproof DSC radio available, so at least getting a rope to the casualty before calling for help seems vital to me.

I don't like the idea of stopping the boat & making a call for say 2-3 mins (at least) while out of sight of the casualty is the best response. I agree it's different with a DSC or cockpit contact with the CG.

 

[capnsensible]

Practice, its all about practice.

Only takes 5 minutes, why not try it every time you go out? You will be amazed at how many things a shorthanded crew can get through quickly, especially if the person on the helm keeps the boat near the person in the water.....no need for a pointy person if the helm takes charge.

Hand held in the cockpit, brill idea.

Practice is what will do it.

IMHO!

Oh I use an old dockline suitably coiled and lashed, secured to an old fender. Lives on the back of the boat permanently....except of course when its regularly going for a swim.

 

[King Penguin]

We're miles off thread here, but it is useful to discuss.

I know, let's get back to topic.........I'm happy to praise the RNLI again......and again.........and again..........and again

 

[Sybarite]

Practice, its all about practice.

Only takes 5 minutes, why not try it every time you go out? You will be amazed at how many things a shorthanded crew can get through quickly, especially if the person on the helm keeps the boat near the person in the water.....no need for a pointy person if the helm takes charge.

Hand held in the cockpit, brill idea.

Practice is what will do it.

IMHO!

Oh I use an old dockline suitably coiled and lashed, secured to an old fender. Lives on the back of the boat permanently....except of course when its regularly going for a swim.

When my kids were young teenagers and knew absolutely everything there was to know about sailing...., one day on a flat calm I threw a fender overbard and told them, "That's me. It's up to you to recover it."

It took them 45 minutes.

On the MOB issue perhaps there is an argument for making it mandatory to have say a boarding ladder permanently fixed somewhere as well as having a block and tackle which can be led to the windlass or a sheet winch.

As far as having a line attached when you go overboard and you are near the bow - especially if you are solo sailing - you need to find some way to make your way back to the transom ladder.

 

[capnsensible]

When my kids were young teenagers and knew absolutely everything there was to know about sailing...., one day on a flat calm I threw a fender overbard and told them, "That's me. It's up to you to recover it."

It took them 45 minutes.

On the MOB issue perhaps there is an argument for making it mandatory to have say a boarding ladder permanently fixed somewhere as well as having a block and tackle which can be led to the windlass or a sheet winch.

As far as having a line attached when you go overboard and you are near the bow - especially if you are solo sailing - you need to find some way to make your way back to the transom ladder.

How long did it take them the 15th time?

 

[Sybarite]

You should be proud!!

This transplanted Yank is also amazed at your rescue services here, which put to shame any in the world I have ever seen.

In the U.S., all we have is the Coast Guard, who are now part of Homeland Security, and as such as much more concerned with real or imagined terrorist threats than they are with rescuing recreational sailors from their own foolishness. They are not that friendly, not that efficient, and do not cover the coastal areas very well. If they are called out for something which is not a matter of imminent life and death, they will send you a bill for their services, too.

I was returning to Hamble from Poole on Saturday and heard a Mayday called on Channel 16 -- man overboard in Osborne Bay, so a short swim from shore -- no big deal, right? Within I guess 90 seconds we heard calls from a rescue helicopter already in flight, being vectored to the supposed MOB site. 90 seconds!!! I'm not exaggerating. We saw the copter fly over; we were near Hurst. Then a few minutes later, Silence Fine, the Mayday was a mistake -- an exercise by a school boat inadvertedly transmitted on the radio.

Not just the RNLI, but the courtesy, helpfulness, friendliness and efficiency of your Coast Guard is also legendary among Yank sailors, a sad contrast to ours.

You have some of the best sailing on the planet, and certainly the best rescue services!

The French are similarly proud of their SNSM and their coast guard system: CROSS.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Société_nationale_de_sauvetage_en_mer

 

[Sybarite]

How long did it take them the 15th time?

It shook them out of their complacency which was the main objective.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

It shook them out of their complaceny which was the main objective.

Today one could put their iWhatsits or xBits in a floating bag and then time how long it takes, it would certainly shake my brood up.

 

[maxi77]

Quite possibly, but a MOB should, in the vast majority of cases, be a mayday call straight away.

We can always turn units around, but we can't buy back time after the event.

In general I agree but there are times when it is perhaps not required, for example at any of the dinghy events I have either organised or attended the need to call for assistance in almost all circumstances would indicate poor planning and risk assesment

 

[Chrusty 1]

In general I agree but there are times when it is perhaps not required, for example at any of the dinghy events I have either organised or attended the need to call for assistance in almost all circumstances would indicate poor planning and risk assesment

What has any of this MOB blather got to do with "An American view of the RNLI"?

 

[prv]

What has any of this MOB blather got to do with "An American view of the RNLI"?

Very little.

Hope this helps.

Pete

 

[maxi77]

What has any of this MOB blather got to do with "An American view of the RNLI"?

Very little but thread drift is mandatory and at least it was an interesting way to go.

Getting back on track I do appreciate their appreciation of the RNLI and was surprised at the comments about USCG, though perhaps if you have to master too many trades you do end up not being master of any.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I cant agree with this at all. A yacht should be able to get alongside a MOB within 5 minutes with white sails only with someone who can sail at the helm. Up my way one doesn't have to sail far for the RNLI / SAR response time to be far longer than your 30 minutes or less.

Getting alongside a casualty and getting them aboard are very different things. And if my wife and I were out sailing, and I fell overboard a) she'd have trouble getting back to me (she'd manage, but she is a relative novice) and b) she'd NEVER get me back aboard unaided; she is tiny (has problems buying clothes and shoes small enough), and although I'm not big, I weigh twice what she does. After even 10-15 minutes in the Clyde, I'd be amazed if I had enough strength left to lift myself out of the water.

On Capricious, we clip on all the time.