lpdsn
Well-Known Member
New tactician next time out was what was going through my mind.
Americas Cup - thrilling racing at last
- Thread starter dunedin
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New tactician next time out was what was going through my mind.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
I' m not sure why there was so much made of a minor error at the mark. It seemed to me that the kiwis were just faster upwind. They seemed to make up over a mile on that leg alone
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
They do, but these boats are close. Oracle looks like she can reach faster and is probably faster downwind. The Kiwis are a bit better upwind, but at one stage in the last race Oracle must've been pointing 10 degrees lower for a significant period, with a clear course change where they encountered the shift - you can't blame the boat for that.
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
The stats show otherwise. Clear difference seems to have been that Oracle had to cover much more distance. They just weren't on the shifts, which is bread and butter stuff at this level. Even the tidal strategy had weaknesses.
Splitting from the trailing boat rather than covering them was a 'schoolboy error' in match racing tactics too.
flaming
Well-Known Member
Because if you're slower upwind but in the lead you just stay between them and the next mark, you don't go banging off on your own hoping they'll be good enough to follow you. You wait for them to tack then tack on them. Make them sail through your dirt to get ahead. The Kiwis passed them without having to engage. Very, very poor tactically in my opinion.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
That seems to be the way oracle like to sail, I think even in the race they won the sailed further
The fact is that the kiwis gained significantly on both f the first coupe of tacks, so it can't just have been that one side of the course was favoured
I think it is virtually impossible for oracle to come back now - unless there is a sudden change in the weather
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
No racer likes to sail further. (Ok, there are rare occurrences like a strong back eddy.)
Look at even a basic book on tactics and you'll see the maths of getting the shifts right makes a huge difference. Sailing so fast they are going to be hitting shifts at a much higher frequency upwind and won't be necessarily able to take them all, especially with such a high boat speed penalty for a tack, and the shifts in this race would've been more complex with the wind coming off the land, and a built up area with tall buildings to boot, but still...
bedouin
Well-Known Member
The coverage I saw was not very good with the wind - do you really think the shifts were that significant
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
Yes. As I said, at one stage you could see the Kiwis on the same tack pointing 10 deg higher.
On Oracle they might have thought that it was because of the land and they would get the payback when they tacked, but they didn't seem to. The teams must've done intensive research on how the land affects the wind over the course but the Kiwis just seemed to be using it better.
Mad Pad
Well-Known Member
When and where can we see this live on TV?
Thanks
Thanks
Richard Shead
Slipped Anchor
It's on bbc2 ? I have it running in full HD through my Apple TV onto a big boys plasma and its superb !
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
What are the chances of a good squall coming through during a race? With no ability to reef, THAT would be interesting!
DJE
Well-Known Member
That's how I read it. If Oracle can win the starts they should be close covering for the rest of the race. Or do they think they can't win a tacking duel?
flaming
Well-Known Member
That's the most likely explanation I think.
skip50
Well-Known Member
BBC2 is highlights. AFAIK the only live coverage is on Youtube, there is an America's Cup Channel. Lots of archived stuff as well.
halcyon
Well-Known Member
bedouin
Well-Known Member
In the races I've seen so far I haven't seen a classic tacking duel as you would expect with monohulls - is there something about these beasts that makes it less effective
flaming
Well-Known Member
Yes, the last gen of cup monohulls would go from circa 10 knots to 7 through a tack. The multis are going from the high 20s to about 10. Tacking is very slow in these things.
It's cracking racing, but to compare it with traditional match racing is a bit off in my opinion.
A1Sailor
...
It was on one of the Sky Sports channels last night. Highlights today at 9am and noon.
rwoofer
Well-Known Member
I would agree. Oracle seem to lose out on tacks for two reasons 1) The boat, apparently the bows dig in slowing the tack 2) Teamwork, they're just not as fluid as the Kiwi's. The boat may also play a part in the team work as the Oracle team are all in pods and need to get in and out.