Ambassador rope cutter?

macd said:
Indeed it's not true, not least because you can't copyright a 'thing', although you can register a design and may be able to patent one. I doubt the (Ambassador) Stripper is protected by patents since it post-dates an earlier design of similar concept.

My understanding is that the US-made Spurs was the first of the scissor-type rope cutters. The Stripper's market pre-eminence in the UK may be because they're UK-based, but availability will no doubt vary from country to country. As I think has already been pointed out, the Stripper is also marketed as the only one suitable for saildrives.
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In fact the product was covered by a patent - but it has been on the market for over 30 years now!

Patents covering similar devices go back to the early part of the 20th century, but as ever the devil is in the detail of what is covered by the patent, and whether that is the thing that makes the product both effective and commercially successful.

You are right about Spurs being on the market earlier, but that product, although superficially similar works on different principles. It also is made of different materials which are not compatible with most stern gear. Seems to have faded from the market in recent years, probably in part because of the dominance of saildrives on new boats.
 
Poey50 said:
Is it just me or does £500 for a two bladed cutter not seem a teensy bit costly?
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Almost a bargain compared to the costs of a replacement anode for it (circa £85 each for a Volvo sail drive, including VAT & delivery).

Anybody know of a more reasonably priced source of anodes? Delivery charge itself is extortionate, but apparently Ambassador won't deal with local chandlers who bulk stocks most other anodes.
It is not simply a matter of just drilling an extra hole, but also seems to need a bit of machining of the standard saildrive one. But with the number of Strippers fitted to saildrives would think there would be a market for affordable replacement anodes.
 
Tranona said:
In fact the product was covered by a patent - but it has been on the market for over 30 years now!

You are right about Spurs being on the market earlier, but that product, although superficially similar works on different principles. It also is made of different materials which are not compatible with most stern gear. Seems to have faded from the market in recent years, probably in part because of the dominance of saildrives on new boats.
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Yes, the manufacturers state that production began in 1982.

I'm a little surprised about your comments about materials. I have one in bits before me now (having just cleaned off the crud with hydrochloric acid). Apart from the plastic bearings, which look broadly similar to those on a Stripper, it's made entirely of stainless steel. Equally, the basic principle is a scissors mechanism between fixed and static blades, the same as the Stripper, although it lacks the latter's saw-tooth edges. Incidentally it says 'PAT' on two of the blades, which I presume isn't a pet name, although nor does it define the patent in question. Having inherited it when we bought the boat, I've no idea of its age.

Intrigued.
 
macd said:
Yes, the manufacturers state that production began in 1982.

I'm a little surprised about your comments about materials. I have one in bits before me now (having just cleaned off the crud with hydrochloric acid). Apart from the plastic bearings, which look broadly similar to those on a Stripper, it's made entirely of stainless steel. Equally, the basic principle is a scissors mechanism between fixed and static blades, the same as the Stripper, although it lacks the latter's saw-tooth edges. Incidentally it says 'PAT' on two of the blades, which I presume isn't a pet name, although nor does it define the patent in question. Having inherited it when we bought the boat, I've no idea of its age.

Intrigued.
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Spurs is made from an American alloy similar to 304. It has to be, because it relies on the sharpness of the blade to cut so has to be hardened which you cannot do with 316. Also explains why it needs an anode.

The action of the two designs is very different. Easiest comparison is with a pair of scissor where the cut is achieved by the blades cutting against each other - and a pair of pinking shears. You can imagine what happens if those blades with a narrow root hit something they can't cut in one go, compared with serrated teeth which are tapered and never touch.

Illustrated by some of the earlier posts which describe munching through large diameter ropes, plastic bags, nets etc which discs can't cope with and blade action scissors struggle.
 
I think Spurs were first with this type of cutter, of which there are three very similar types all using a fixed blade mounted on the bearing carrier and a number of blades attached to the shaft which as they rotate act like scissors. Spurs, Gator and Stripper.

There also disc (many types serrated or plane) and finally the third distinct type the shaver of which there is only one type.
 
Neil_Y said:
There also disc (many types serrated or plane) and finally the third distinct type the shaver of which there is only one type.
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I am curious, what is the difference between the disc types, with which I am familiar, and the shaver, which I have not heard of?
Is the difference fundamental or only a matter of degree?
 
Tranona said:
Spurs is made from an American alloy similar to 304. It has to be, because it relies on the sharpness of the blade to cut so has to be hardened which you cannot do with 316. Also explains why it needs an anode.
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Well thankyou, Tranona. There was no anode when we bought the boat five years ago, which I took to be its normal condition. So it hasn't had once since yet seems none the worse for it. But I suppose I'd better look into getting one. (For anyone else in a similar position, it turns out that only the fixed blade needs an anode, and a pretty tiny one, at that. It shouldn't be to difficult to fabricate one from a piece of zinc stock. The rotating blades are protected by the prop/shaft zincs.)
 
Fundamentally different, the Shaver is a fixed blade held in a holder attached to the bearing carrier and a spool attached to the prop. Spool works as a winch drum, blade works like a lathe tool. The debris is rotating with the shaft once caught winds around the spool, and meets a fixed short blade angled at about 45 degrees.
 
I used to run a precision engineering company. When I bought my stripper in 2010 I got my folk to look at making them and it was clear that there was not enough margin to make it worthwhile. I do drill my own anodes though - there is too much slack tolerance on the one I bought from ambassador.
They are a good product but I am not convinced about the fixed blade retention on the sail drive version which seems to rely as much on the anode as the stud going into an Allen head on the sail drive leg
 
macd said:
Well thankyou, Tranona. There was no anode when we bought the boat five years ago, which I took to be its normal condition. So it hasn't had once since yet seems none the worse for it. But I suppose I'd better look into getting one. (For anyone else in a similar position, it turns out that only the fixed blade needs an anode, and a pretty tiny one, at that. It shouldn't be to difficult to fabricate one from a piece of zinc stock. The rotating blades are protected by the prop/shaft zincs.)
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Some models were fitted with a bonding wire to the fixed block which inevitably broke or fell off. suggest you dismantle and have a look at the baring faces as this is where they tend to corrode - either galvanic or if the boat is stationary in the water for long periods, crevice corrosion. Have seen many that look like pieces of gruyere cheese. Tends to then wear the bearings and the whole assembly rattles. Would reduce effectiveness as it is important for the blades to be close so that they can cut if they hit anything.
 
The UK magazines have never tested the cutter that's been used by the RNLI and the RN for more than 10 years. So not sure how you conclude they regularly test cutters.
 
Neil_Y said:
The UK magazines have never tested the cutter that's been used by the RNLI and the RN for more than 10 years. So not sure how you conclude they regularly test cutters.
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1. If you're addressing a particular post to an individual and hope for a response, I suggest you use some method, such as the quote facility, to make that clear.
2. If it was aimed at me, I wrote that UK magazines test rope cutters "every few years" for no other reason than that they group-test rope cutters every few years. If you consider the tests not exhaustive enough, I suggest you take it up with the magazines in question.
3. If you're so concerned about comprehensiveness and balance, perhaps you'd be so kind as to identify the anonymous cutter to which you refer? Readers might also be glad to know whether they're available to the public and where they might source them.
 
fisherman said:
I have Spurs, have had to replace the holding block twice in twenty years. I wonder if the Ambassador is better.
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From memory of the Stripper I used to own, and the Spurs we have now, I don't think there's much significant difference between the form and fastening of their holding blocks*. When we bought our current boat, the holding block was entirely missing, although that was because the previous owner had no idea how to tap a hole. (He was a doctor but, I hope, not an orthopoedic surgeon.)

* I presume the saildrive version of the Stripper must be different, but have no knowledge of it.

Tranona said:
Some models were fitted with a bonding wire to the fixed block which inevitably broke or fell off. suggest you dismantle and have a look at the baring faces as this is where they tend to corrode - either galvanic or if the boat is stationary in the water for long periods, crevice corrosion. Have seen many that look like pieces of gruyere cheese. Tends to then wear the bearings and the whole assembly rattles. Would reduce effectiveness as it is important for the blades to be close so that they can cut if they hit anything.
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Thanks again, Tranona.
There is a really tiny bit of crevice corrosion on the face of the fixed blade, but so far nothing that might reduce its functionality. But I will be keeping an eye on it and endeavouring to get an anode. Given that the boat has spent most of the last four years in the water, including two full winters afloat, I seem to have got off lightly.

For anyone else in a similar position, Spurs has advised me that parts can be obtained in the UK from:
Harold Hayles, Ltd.
The Quay
Yarmouth Isle of Wight PO41 0RS
Phone: 01983 760373
Email: info@spurscutters.co.uk

Update: repy from Hayles:
An anode and bearings for a model B cutter will cost £32.40 including VAT and postage. These are available ex stock for immediate despatch on receipt of payment which may be made by VISA or Mastercard or direct to our bank account...
 
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dunedin said:
Almost a bargain compared to the costs of a replacement anode for it (circa £85 each for a Volvo sail drive, including VAT & delivery).

Anybody know of a more reasonably priced source of anodes? Delivery charge itself is extortionate, but apparently Ambassador won't deal with local chandlers who bulk stocks most other anodes.
It is not simply a matter of just drilling an extra hole, but also seems to need a bit of machining of the standard saildrive one. But with the number of Strippers fitted to saildrives would think there would be a market for affordable replacement anodes.
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Zincsmart has been my source of saildrive anodes for several years and they will drill the guide pin hole and machine the lip edges for a modest fee. (I have done it myself but i had a machine shop at work then and it requires a pedestal drill to accurately drill the hole)
Total cost - a fraction of what you can pay elsewhere.
Michael.
 
macd said:
1. If you're addressing a particular post to an individual and hope for a response, I suggest you use some method, such as the quote facility, to make that clear.
2. If it was aimed at me, I wrote that UK magazines test rope cutters "every few years" for no other reason than that they group-test rope cutters every few years. If you consider the tests not exhaustive enough, I suggest you take it up with the magazines in question.
3. If you're so concerned about comprehensiveness and balance, perhaps you'd be so kind as to identify the anonymous cutter to which you refer? Readers might also be glad to know whether they're available to the public and where they might source them.
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I think he might be referring to this bit of kit: http://www.h4marine.com/QuicKutter01.htm

This is the comment from the 2015 test (http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/gear/propeller-rope-cutter-test-30012):

We explained to all eight manufacturers how our tests would be conducted and invited suppliers to send us samples and attend the test. Plastimo couldn’t provide us with a unit, so we bought one. We were unable to test the Quickutter shaver – its maker declined to participate, citing concerns over the suitability of out test tank and rig for evaluating the performance of a shaver. We would be pleased to hear of any readers’ experiences with shaver-type cutters. It’s worth noting that the RNLI has fitted Quickutters to its entire fleet of Tamar-class lifeboats.

IMHO this doesn't justify his sarky post though. I assume from his picture he's hardly unbiased and it's interesting that he chose not to point that out.
 
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macd said:
1. If you're addressing a particular post to an individual and hope for a response, I suggest you use some method, such as the quote facility, to make that clear.
2. If it was aimed at me, I wrote that UK magazines test rope cutters "every few years" for no other reason than that they group-test rope cutters every few years. If you consider the tests not exhaustive enough, I suggest you take it up with the magazines in question.
3. If you're so concerned about comprehensiveness and balance, perhaps you'd be so kind as to identify the anonymous cutter to which you refer? Readers might also be glad to know whether they're available to the public and where they might source them.
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Is it possible that the Quickutter is used on the larger RNLI vessels on the basis that the calcs are materially different up around the 100bhp+ territory, from those relevant to yachts which overwhelmingly operate in the 25-125bhp space?

Personally, there is no way I would buy a product from a manufacturer who declined to provide clear and specific reasons for not partaking in a test, which attempted to realistically mimic my intended application.
 
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