Almost makes me want to buy a yacht and go sailing again

dunedin said:
Lovely boats … though the design is now over a quarter century old.

Sticking at 42 foot dreamboats, I’ll raise you an Xc42 Yacht of the Week- The Xc 42 from X-yachts

:-)
Click to expand...
Rustler for me. I am not fond of twin wheel set up for serious cruising.
On both boats, having the chart plotter on the pedestal suggests they are optimised for day sailing. On long distance passages, who is behind the wheel? Especially if you are short handed. Sat under the sprayhood at night requires a plotter there as well or you are continually having to get out of the shelter of the sprayhood to check the radar and AIS. In addition, the plotter touch screen is out in the weather where screens have a tendency to dislike wet fingers and salt spray. Most modern production boats have this set up.
 
geem said:
Rustler for me. I am not fond of twin wheel set up for serious cruising.
On both boats, having the chart plotter on the pedestal suggests they are optimised for day sailing. On long distance passages, who is behind the wheel? Especially if you are short handed. Sat under the sprayhood at night requires a plotter there as well or you are continually having to get out of the shelter of the sprayhood to check the radar and AIS. In addition, the plotter touch screen is out in the weather where screens have a tendency to dislike wet fingers and salt spray. Most modern production boats have this set up.
Click to expand...
It's an interesting point.
In an ideal world we'd have an MFD at the helm, under the sprayhood, and at the chart table. In practise we don't have the budget for that.
We've recently added an MFD, and decided to put it at the helm. That's the one place where you really need a waterproof and daylight viewable display. Ours is a hybrid model with physical controls as well as a touchscreen.
For other locations around the boat, we can use phones, tablets, or the laptop.
 
Sea Change said:
It's an interesting point.
In an ideal world we'd have an MFD at the helm, under the sprayhood, and at the chart table. In practise we don't have the budget for that.
We've recently added an MFD, and decided to put it at the helm. That's the one place where you really need a waterproof and daylight viewable display. Ours is a hybrid model with physical controls as well as a touchscreen.
For other locations around the boat, we can use phones, tablets, or the laptop.
Click to expand...
We have a 12" MFD under the sprayhood. It's good until we need to manouvre and I am stood behind the wheel. When I get to the Caribbean, I will order the remote control unit so I can have that on the pedestal to control the MFD zoom in and out, etc. I can see the plotter easily from the wheel but the Mrs has to zoom in and out for me😬
We also have a completely seperate boat computer on the nav station running open CPN that has AIS targets on it as well as a couple of tablets with navionics.
We have two autopilot control heads as well. One on the pedestal and one under the sprayhood.
 
geem said:
We have a 12" MFD under the sprayhood. It's good until we need to manouvre and I am stood behind the wheel. When I get to the Caribbean, I will order the remote control unit so I can have that on the pedestal to control the MFD zoom in and out, etc. I can see the plotter easily from the wheel but the Mrs has to zoom in and out for me😬
We also have a completely seperate boat computer on the nav station running open CPN that has AIS targets on it as well as a couple of tablets with navionics.
We have two autopilot control heads as well. One on the pedestal and one under the sprayhood.
Click to expand...
Just ordered a 9" for under the sprayhood and remote buttons to fit on binnacle so at the helm under pilotage can zoom in or out.
 
geem said:
Rustler for me. I am not fond of twin wheel set up for serious cruising.
On both boats, having the chart plotter on the pedestal suggests they are optimised for day sailing. On long distance passages, who is behind the wheel? Especially if you are short handed. Sat under the sprayhood at night requires a plotter there as well or you are continually having to get out of the shelter of the sprayhood to check the radar and AIS. In addition, the plotter touch screen is out in the weather where screens have a tendency to dislike wet fingers and salt spray. Most modern production boats have this set up.
Click to expand...
How many cruising miles have you done personally with a good twin wheel cruising boat - like the Xc42 linked to?
I have had three boats - first tiller steered, second single wheel, third twin wheel. Like you before I got the twin wheel boat, I thought I would prefer single wheel.
But now after well over 25k serious cruising miles - including a transatlantic in the Xc45, bigger sister of the Xc42, I am convinced that double wheel is best for any boat 12m or more.

In the tiller steered boat we rarely touched the tiller (unless reversing under motor) - always used the tiller extension to have better view of the sails and the water.
The single wheel boat had a wheel about 1.5m diameter. Again could steer from the rail to see the sails - but a pain to get past the wheel to take the helm, or to access the stern gate. (I could never buy a boat with a small wheel, with the helm pinned on the centreline, with no view.)

Properly set up like the Xc42/Xc45 the twin wheels are the best solution for “serious cruising” IMHO
- when want to hand steer when sailing for fun, doing pilotage or parking, then ideally suited to have the best view via the twin wheels
- when under autopilot can keep watch either sitting on the pushpit stern seats (standard on the Xc) if warm and sunny, or under the sprayhood looking through the windscreen
- substantial cockpit table with stowage keeps crew secure in wide cockpit, with plenty of space for kit, snacks, hot drinks or afternoon crew drinks
- plotter at back of table is ideal for single handed sailing as directly visible and able to adjust, as well as when the skipper is doing tricky navigating with somebody else at the helm (as plotter easier to see than if on single helm binnacle, blocked by the helm).
- if watch keeping from the companionway can swivel head to see the second plotter at the chart table (with boats costing £1/2m a second plotter is a no brainer), or use phone/tablet also being used for Kindle and/or music to assist solo watch.
- the Xc45 is set up so each wheel is independently connected to the rudder quadrant, giving full backup even if one set of steering cables fails.
- very easy to get past wheels to take over the helm, and to access the stern platform at anchor or in harbour. Much less cluttered than a single wheel.
What’s not to like?

Also much longer waterline than the Rustler and so faster passage times. Not looked up displacements, but suspect fully loaded very similar.
 
dunedin said:
How many cruising miles have you done personally with a good twin wheel cruising boat - like the Xc42 linked to?
I have had three boats - first tiller steered, second single wheel, third twin wheel. Like you before I got the twin wheel boat, I thought I would prefer single wheel.
But now after well over 25k serious cruising miles - including a transatlantic in the Xc45, bigger sister of the Xc42, I am convinced that double wheel is best for any boat 12m or more.

In the tiller steered boat we rarely touched the tiller (unless reversing under motor) - always used the tiller extension to have better view of the sails and the water.
The single wheel boat had a wheel about 1.5m diameter. Again could steer from the rail to see the sails - but a pain to get past the wheel to take the helm, or to access the stern gate. (I could never buy a boat with a small wheel, with the helm pinned on the centreline, with no view.)

Properly set up like the Xc42/Xc45 the twin wheels are the best solution for “serious cruising” IMHO
- when want to hand steer when sailing for fun, doing pilotage or parking, then ideally suited to have the best view via the twin wheels
- when under autopilot can keep watch either sitting on the pushpit stern seats (standard on the Xc) if warm and sunny, or under the sprayhood looking through the windscreen
- substantial cockpit table with stowage keeps crew secure in wide cockpit, with plenty of space for kit, snacks, hot drinks or afternoon crew drinks
- plotter at back of table is ideal for single handed sailing as directly visible and able to adjust, as well as when the skipper is doing tricky navigating with somebody else at the helm (as plotter easier to see than if on single helm binnacle, blocked by the helm).
- if watch keeping from the companionway can swivel head to see the second plotter at the chart table (with boats costing £1/2m a second plotter is a no brainer), or use phone/tablet also being used for Kindle and/or music to assist solo watch.
- the Xc45 is set up so each wheel is independently connected to the rudder quadrant, giving full backup even if one set of steering cables fails.
- very easy to get past wheels to take over the helm, and to access the stern platform at anchor or in harbour. Much less cluttered than a single wheel.
What’s not to like?

Also much longer waterline than the Rustler and so faster passage times. Not looked up displacements, but suspect fully loaded very similar.
Click to expand...
I am glad it works for you. It's not for me. 45,000nm in my current boat with a single wheel and I wouldn't change it.
 
I don’t want to be sacrilegious.....but I don’t really care for the...living in a treehouse...interior
 
geem said:
Enough to know I never want one
Click to expand...
Which is fine. But for the benefit of others, in post #13 I set out 7 objective reasons why, after sailing long distances with both, I found the twin wheels better for “serious cruising”.
I am genuinely interested in what you think the arguments in favour of a single wheel are (in boats over 12m)?
 
dunedin said:
The single wheel boat had a wheel about 1.5m diameter. Again could steer from the rail to see the sails - but a pain to get past the wheel to take the helm,
Click to expand...

this is a huge pain on many single-wheel boats.

you forgot to mention the knee-high traveler that is also in the way on many of them - especially the older ones.

It is really the case that in bad conditions even getting to the wheel can be a little bit dangerous on some boats.

Twin wheels make it very easy to get behind one while staying safely near the middle of the cockpit, and without any contortions.

The XC 45 is a nice boat - I have sailed one and I was really surprised at its light wind performance with a cruising code 0
 
dunedin said:
Which is fine. But for the benefit of others, in post #13 I set out 7 objective reasons why, after sailing long distances with both, I found the twin wheels better for “serious cruising”.
I am genuinely interested in what you think the arguments in favour of a single wheel are (in boats over 12m)?
Click to expand...
You compared twin wheels to 1 particular boat with a ridiculously large wheel and you have made all your assessments on that basis. You now have a boat that YOU prefer. Iam happy for you but you haven't sailed a multitude of single wheel boat 25,000nm to make a fair assessment. I have raced twin wheel boats and delivered twin wheel cruising boats back to the charter base a couple of times. Only 100s of miles not thousands. These were uphill trips in bumpy conditions. They were also very average production boats not an X boat.
The shelter in the cockpit was none existent. Climbing up to the windward wheel was at times impossible. If you needed to move from the windward wheel it was like free falling. At times it was dangerous. At anchor the boat sailed about so much that in the evening, sitting outside to eat was alternatively windy from the port side then the starboard side. If you huddled under the sprayhood when sailing you couldn't see the plotter mounted between the wheels.
My experience is of twin wheels is limited, but it is my experience and it makes me appreciate the attributes in my boat that suit my kind of sailing.
I don't need twin wheels or the massive exposed cockpit that they come with. It's personal preference
 
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