anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
In the short article Minn provided a link for you'll see that he chose it for the best possible reason. It was free.
Alacrity 18 bilge keeler wins RTI !
- Thread starter XDC
- Start date
In the short article Minn provided a link for you'll see that he chose it for the best possible reason. It was free.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Thanks for posting the article, Minn.
Of course, another factor is the 1m draught. A significant advantage racing round the Island, their course is shorter and they can get out of a foul tide more effectively than many.
Of course, another factor is the 1m draught. A significant advantage racing round the Island, their course is shorter and they can get out of a foul tide more effectively than many.
lw395
Well-known member
Aside from the winner, the top bunch of boats is interesting.
A few Sonatas and Impalas in the top 20 or so.
A Swan 36
A contessa 33
http://www.roundtheisland.org.uk/we...ults&page=results2019&classrequest=40&submit=
Basically old-school cruiser-racers from the last century, many of the them relatively 'affordable' boats.
170 finishers.
In the ISC fleet, only 58 finishers.
What does this say about yachting these days? A lot of people spent a lot of money on cruisers that can't get around the Island?
Or sailors today just lack the will to keep going until Last Orders?
A few Sonatas and Impalas in the top 20 or so.
A Swan 36
A contessa 33
http://www.roundtheisland.org.uk/we...ults&page=results2019&classrequest=40&submit=
Basically old-school cruiser-racers from the last century, many of the them relatively 'affordable' boats.
170 finishers.
In the ISC fleet, only 58 finishers.
What does this say about yachting these days? A lot of people spent a lot of money on cruisers that can't get around the Island?
Or sailors today just lack the will to keep going until Last Orders?
Kukri
Well-known member
I suspect that many of the bigger boats had crews who needed to get home. But it’s really good to see JOG type racing perhaps making a comeback.
flaming
Well-known member
After last year's RTI I remember saying to the crew "well, that's almost certainly the slowest RTI you'll ever do..."
This year, in a new, faster boat (especially in the light) we took over an hour and a half longer. Frankly we only kept going because we were in the top 2 of the class. So getting passed by 3 boats in the class up the final beat once the breeze filled in a bit in the eastern solent was especially painful.
This year was just an awful day to go yachting. Way, way more snakes than ladders. We'd parked 3 times before we even left the Solent. We actually did really well at the needles and managed to slip through and get South into some breeze. We didn't actually realise it at the time, but at this point we were leading our class by quite a margin, and we were the slowest boat in the fleet. Then a long beat past st Cats, where we actually saw 19 knots of breeze. Before it shut down again in Sandown bay. And then again off Bembridge. And again at the forts.
One of our crew looked at our track and counted 40 tacks just between st Cats and Ventnor, which was the only part of the whole course where we had decent breeze.
Unlike last year it doesn't appear that getting out of the needles was the issue for most of the retirees, it seems that they simply ran out of time trying to beat down the back of the island in 7 knots or less. Which isn't all that surprising. That's a 20 mile beat, and if you're only making 3 knots or so, you're probably only making 2 VMG. Even with some tide with you that's likely to take you the best part of 7 hours. Add in the time spent actually parked up in the numerous wind holes and you can easily see why anything that struggles to make good progress in the light was just never going to make it round anywhere close to the time limit. (Which was expended this year...)
This year, in a new, faster boat (especially in the light) we took over an hour and a half longer. Frankly we only kept going because we were in the top 2 of the class. So getting passed by 3 boats in the class up the final beat once the breeze filled in a bit in the eastern solent was especially painful.
This year was just an awful day to go yachting. Way, way more snakes than ladders. We'd parked 3 times before we even left the Solent. We actually did really well at the needles and managed to slip through and get South into some breeze. We didn't actually realise it at the time, but at this point we were leading our class by quite a margin, and we were the slowest boat in the fleet. Then a long beat past st Cats, where we actually saw 19 knots of breeze. Before it shut down again in Sandown bay. And then again off Bembridge. And again at the forts.
One of our crew looked at our track and counted 40 tacks just between st Cats and Ventnor, which was the only part of the whole course where we had decent breeze.
Unlike last year it doesn't appear that getting out of the needles was the issue for most of the retirees, it seems that they simply ran out of time trying to beat down the back of the island in 7 knots or less. Which isn't all that surprising. That's a 20 mile beat, and if you're only making 3 knots or so, you're probably only making 2 VMG. Even with some tide with you that's likely to take you the best part of 7 hours. Add in the time spent actually parked up in the numerous wind holes and you can easily see why anything that struggles to make good progress in the light was just never going to make it round anywhere close to the time limit. (Which was expended this year...)
TSB240
Well-known member
Joe is both a a very talented designer and an excellent sailor. I was in the same hall at university when he built one of his radical national 12s in his room.
His Punkarella was a game changer for the class.
I do hope his RS Aero replaces the outdated and flawed laser as an olympic single hander.
He obviously has not changed as he always delighted in pushing the rules to the limit and exploring and exploiting any loopholes. It comes as no surprise that this boat started out as a wreck of an Alacrity . It certainly does not perform or look like one longer.
https://youtu.be/FfTfAOGYVzo?t=5
tross
Active member
Well at least it wasn't a contessa or a folkboat as it usally is.
I agree with flaming, especially if you are some of the later classes - with light winds you just end up going backwards at Hurst and a waste of a not so cheap these days entrance fee. Last year I decided that enough was enough and stopped entering especilly as I was told yoy have enough tankards!
I agree with flaming, especially if you are some of the later classes - with light winds you just end up going backwards at Hurst and a waste of a not so cheap these days entrance fee. Last year I decided that enough was enough and stopped entering especilly as I was told yoy have enough tankards!
flaming
Well-known member
Ah, see that's slightly different... I try not to miss the RTI. The windy RTI days are just incredible days on the water. 2011 is probably the single best day's sailing I've ever had. Great wind, great boat, great crew, tough competition, surfing down waves with the kite up, phenomenal spectacle... Photos taken that day still hang on our wall. What's not to like?
It just makes races like the last 2 even more frustrating though. But we keep coming back because we know that eventually we'll have 20+ from the SW again and we'll be grinning for weeks afterwards.
AndrewfromFal
Active member
I remember a few years ago reading that as a hobby he was attempting to grow the largest possible Squash (I think) for his local agricultural fair. Needless to say he’d whipped up a computer programme to help him calculate it’s size and weight as it grew. Quite a singular chap by all accounts.
chewi
Active member
The owner is plainly a canny man.
Entering in IRC rather than ISC he started at 0830 not 0910.
The 40 minute difference allowed him to finish at just past 2200, befiore the 2230 cutoff , which most if not all of ISC class 8 did not.
The handicap does not take account of tide, and his 13 hr passage coincides with the tidal cycle.. He might have had tide with him all the way round. That gave him another advantage over the supposedly faster boats.
You still have to sail it well ,which I'm sure he did. Respect is due.
Entering in IRC rather than ISC he started at 0830 not 0910.
The 40 minute difference allowed him to finish at just past 2200, befiore the 2230 cutoff , which most if not all of ISC class 8 did not.
The handicap does not take account of tide, and his 13 hr passage coincides with the tidal cycle.. He might have had tide with him all the way round. That gave him another advantage over the supposedly faster boats.
You still have to sail it well ,which I'm sure he did. Respect is due.
lw395
Well-known member
I expect he raced in IRC because that's the prize to win, the people to race against.
The RTIR is generally tidally biased towards smaller boats, particularly in lighter airs.
But there are many good sailors in smaller boats, to win overall you must win your division.
ISC group 8 is mostly full of much bigger boats.
I do hope next year is a better event for the 'once a year racers' or I suspect people will start to tire of it.
Applespider
New member
The class we sailed in (ISC 6 - start 0850) had 108 starters, of which 11 finished, mostly around/after 10pm.
We had a lovely run down to Hearst and then got caught in a wind hole. We had to put in an extra gybe to avoid someone on starboard which meant we ended up on the north side of the channel and in a wind shift/hole while the tide took us west. It took us 2 hours to get to the Needles - and then another 4 hours to tack down to St Catherine's with the wind coming from the worst possible direction to make much VMG. We were sailing 'against' two other similar yachts with friends - and all took slightly different tactics from the Needles but all ended up at St Cats within 10 minutes of each other. We all finally retired around Ventnor at 1830 with at least 20 miles to go and the wind dropping to F1.
I didn't hear as many complaints this year. Last year, the start times and tides meant that there was very little leeway to get down to the Needles and the light winds didn't help. This year, the ISC set the start times to give the slower boats the maximum chance to get around with favourable tides for the majority of the course. But the other half of the sailing equation didn't come through for them. Even if we hadn't had much more than an F3, if it had stayed reasonably constant, most of the fleet would probably have made it. But there were huge wind holes that just stuffed us. You could see big 'flocks' on AIS as yachts ended up in the dead zones.
We had a lovely run down to Hearst and then got caught in a wind hole. We had to put in an extra gybe to avoid someone on starboard which meant we ended up on the north side of the channel and in a wind shift/hole while the tide took us west. It took us 2 hours to get to the Needles - and then another 4 hours to tack down to St Catherine's with the wind coming from the worst possible direction to make much VMG. We were sailing 'against' two other similar yachts with friends - and all took slightly different tactics from the Needles but all ended up at St Cats within 10 minutes of each other. We all finally retired around Ventnor at 1830 with at least 20 miles to go and the wind dropping to F1.
I didn't hear as many complaints this year. Last year, the start times and tides meant that there was very little leeway to get down to the Needles and the light winds didn't help. This year, the ISC set the start times to give the slower boats the maximum chance to get around with favourable tides for the majority of the course. But the other half of the sailing equation didn't come through for them. Even if we hadn't had much more than an F3, if it had stayed reasonably constant, most of the fleet would probably have made it. But there were huge wind holes that just stuffed us. You could see big 'flocks' on AIS as yachts ended up in the dead zones.
RobbieW
Well-known member
People I know ended up anchored by the wreck (briefly, they also managed to finish); Eeyore went inside them, touched and stuck, crew jumped off, pushed Eeyore away, jumped back, carry on, win - respect 
Nico
Member
Agreed, but also the NOR says that if you have an IRC certificate you have to enter in IRC, you can't choose to suit yourself. Given the serious nature of both boat and skipper (Olympic medal) I'm pretty sure he'd have had a certificate all along, so no option.
flaming
Well-known member
Not quite...
But the overall point is one I endorse. I have seen some atrocious pot hunting from top IRC boats going in the ISC class with their full crew over the years. A grey area would be if, for example, an IRC boat decided to do the RTI with family and friends rather than their normal crew.
lw395
Well-known member
I wouldn't take that for granted, I'm curious what else that boat has done this year? He'd not be the only boat to ever get an IRC cert just for RTIR, that's for sure.
As Flaming puts it, he'd be accused of pot hunting by some in the ISC fleet.
Respect for getting his name on that bowl.
Nico
Member
I think Flaming was just pointing out that it is possible to have dispensation to sail in ISC even if you have an IRC certificate ("some suitable non-performance boats"). Eeyeore had an IRC cert in 2017 (quick Google - https://www.rsyc.org.uk/index.php/article/view/id/1476) so presumably was built to race in IRC, not to go pot-hunting in ISC. The RTI has a history of small boats winning outright on handicap and why not. It helps if you are bloody good, mind.
flaming
Well-known member
He also wouldn't be the only person to own a boat purely to race RTI, that doesn't come out for the rest of the year. I know of at least one person who has a folkboat purely for RTI as well as a bigger boat.
However, in this case Eeyore does a fair amount of other things, for example in 2017 she won class 7 at Cowes.
XDC
Well-known member
Just out of interest and NOT starting a colreg post :ambivalence: what happens when you sail into a wind hole in a large group that then progressively starts to get breeze?
Does a racing rule apply that covers boats literally unable to manoeuvre?
(I can’t believe I have to ask this as I was second in class many years ago and would have won if our heavy weather Genoa hadn’t split across a seam. On the start line. On port. Character building)
Does a racing rule apply that covers boats literally unable to manoeuvre?
(I can’t believe I have to ask this as I was second in class many years ago and would have won if our heavy weather Genoa hadn’t split across a seam. On the start line. On port. Character building
)
flaming
Well-known member
Just out of interest and NOT starting a colreg post :ambivalence: what happens when you sail into a wind hole in a large group that then progressively starts to get breeze?
Does a racing rule apply that covers boats literally unable to manoeuvre?
(I can’t believe I have to ask this as I was second in class many years ago and would have won if our heavy weather Genoa hadn’t split across a seam. On the start line. On port. Character building
The answer is "it depends".
If you are becalmed on port and someone finds some breeze and tacks onto starboard and sails at you, and you, despite putting your helm over and trimming your sails as best you are able, are unable to avoid them, then should they stand on into that collision they would break 15. And 14 if there was damage.
This is because 15 says
And the definition of "room" is
So if you cannot get out of the way when you reacted promptly in the prevailing conditions, then they haven't given you room.
Ditto if they changed course into you, because rule 16.1 says.
If however you became becalmed on port. And another boat became becalmed on starboard, and then when the breeze filled in they, without altering course, sailed straight at you before the breeze got to you, I cannot see what rule they would break, assuming that they avoided the contact and just protested you for not getting out of the way.
Ditto if you drifted into a keep clear situation like becoming windward boat whilst essentially becalmed. Not their problem.
In practice, outside of a very serious championship race (which it is to be hoped would be canned if competitors actually became becalmed) most sailors tend to treat becalmed boats as obstuctions if they are actually able to manoeuvre themselves.