AIS thread drift.

When you are sailing at night and having your 20 minutes kip before getting up for a 'look see' and then crashing out for another 20 mins - having Radar and AIS and having the 'Guard Zones' set (on both) is very comforting. For those that have never enjoyed Radar and AIS - a guard zone is set up around your moving vessel at let say 3nm and if any boat enters that zone an alarm goes off to warn you. It is like using an anchor alarm in a unfamiliar anchorage. You are given a warning there may be trouble ahead. The guard zone is also useful during extreme weather conditions like when it rains so hard visibility is severely restricted.
RupertW said:
A lot of us strongly object to the word mandatory as it usually comes from the most insecure boaters on the forum, or those whose philosophy of boating is a million miles away from those who want to get away from jobsworths and rule makers.
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If you had the right equipment - it would be easier to escape the rule makers and jobsworths hunting you - because you could track them - and see them coming - and make your escape swift.
 
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Star-Lord said:
When you are sailing at night and having your 20 minutes kip before getting up for a 'look see' and then crashing out for another 20 mins - having Radar and AIS and having the 'Guard Zones' set (on both) is very comforting. For those that have never enjoyed Radar and AIS - a guard zone is set up around your moving vessel at let say 3nm and if any boat enters that zone an alarm goes off to warn you. It is like using an anchor alarm in a unfamiliar anchorage. You are given a warning there may be trouble ahead. The guard zone is also useful during extreme weather conditions like when it rains so hard visibility is severely restricted.

If you had the right equipment - it would be easier to escape the rule makers and jobsworths hunting you - because you could track them - and see them coming - and make your escape swift.
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I’m more into seamanship than gadgets and take my duty to keep a permanent watch very seriously. But if you are saying that those who keep watch intermittently can benefit from AIS and radar alarms then I might think of them as reckless (but that’s up to them) but agree that alarms will make a bit of the shortfall.
 
If my sailing were to be more adventurous, I'd get AIS but, for pottering around the Solent, I work on the "Law of Tonnage" and keep out of the way of anything bigger than a ferry, and keep out of their way in the shallow bits. If visibility is bad enough that I can't see anything that may be a risk in time to do something about it, I can, and do stay put; if I get caught out, I'll head for the nearest 5m contour. I fail to see what AIS would add to my safety or that of others.

I could see a case for making it obligatory for vessels going more than 10 miles off shore, but I doubt it would save many lives, even in the Channel. To my mind, obliging people to wear life jackets on pontoons would probably save more. No, I don't want to see that happen either. Trying to fix drunk - except in charge of a vehicle - and/or stupid rarely makes for good legislation.
 
RupertW said:
I’m more into seamanship than gadgets and take my duty to keep a permanent watch very seriously. But if you are saying that those who keep watch intermittently can benefit from AIS and radar alarms then I might think of them as reckless (but that’s up to them) but agree that alarms will make a bit of the shortfall.
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Thumbs up for seamanship, but you obviously never do solo long distance passages of 3 or 4 days (across Biscay for instance) where it is impossible not to sleep, cook, use heads and do other jobs, and in fact, some of those tasks need doing on a 12 hour hop across the Channel.
 
Stemar said:
If my sailing were to be more adventurous, I'd get AIS but, for pottering around the Solent, I work on the "Law of Tonnage" and keep out of the way of anything bigger than a ferry, and keep out of their way in the shallow bits. If visibility is bad enough that I can't see anything that may be a risk in time to do something about it, I can, and do stay put; if I get caught out, I'll head for the nearest 5m contour. I fail to see what AIS would add to my safety or that of others.

I could see a case for making it obligatory for vessels going more than 10 miles off shore, but I doubt it would save many lives, even in the Channel. To my mind, obliging people to wear life jackets on pontoons would probably save more. No, I don't want to see that happen either. Trying to fix drunk - except in charge of a vehicle - and/or stupid rarely makes for good legislation.
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Sometimes the whole thread needs to be read before commenting :) I have made this mistake before. No one is saying you need AIS for pottering around.
 
LadyInBed said:
Thumbs up for seamanship, but you obviously never do solo long distance passages of 3 or 4 days (across Biscay for instance) where it is impossible not to sleep, cook, use heads and do other jobs, and in fact, some of those tasks need doing on a 12 hour hop across the Channel.
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You are absolutely right and in those circumstances of course you should use any available tools that mitigate the risk of not being able to keep a continuous watch. I remember when I did a solo across Biscay in the late 90s ( I don’t often solo) I installed a simplistic gadget called Watchmate ( I think ) that used very little power but had a sort of cross made out of LED lights that told you the strength and direction of any radar signals and beeped loudly in time with the signals. Totally crude compared to now but made life much safer.
 
RupertW said:
A lot of us strongly object to the word mandatory as it usually comes from the most insecure boaters on the forum, or those whose philosophy of boating is a million miles away from those who want to get away from jobsworths and rule makers.
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I agree it is not necessary to have a law about everything.
 
RupertW said:
No but you are dictating to us, saying a particular gadget that makes you less nervous should be mandatory for everyone whether they need it or not.
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I will quote what I wrote yesterday, or the day before, answering capnsensible. Btw taking a 'position' is far removed from 'dictating.'

Star-Lord said:
My position is that it should be maritime law (mandatory) for all vessels travelling at night (or in fog) to be fitted with AIS and turned on (class B transponder in the case of recreational vessels).

There is no law saying you must have AIS - so if you have not got AIS - then you have not got it! If you do not want it - then do not get it. I have it because imho why on earth not. I would also highly recommend it.
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I suspect we're more likely to get a ban on singlehanders.
Restrictions are creeping in from the insurers.
 
lw395 said:
I suspect we're more likely to get a ban on singlehanders.
Restrictions are creeping in from the insurers.
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I'm sure than is the case. It is sad but understandable. I can't imagine that insurers have information about the relative risks of sailing with or without AIS, or for that matter, radar, radio, or even a compass, so I think we are safe from the Star-lord taliban.
 
lw395 said:
I suspect we're more likely to get a ban on singlehanders.
Restrictions are creeping in from the insurers.
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Indeed. Shouldnt think MCA or anyone will call for a ban on singlehanding but the Insurance companies will shoot it dow. There are a lot of single handed fishing boats mind, expect they will still be ok.
 
capnsensible said:
Indeed. Shouldnt think MCA or anyone will call for a ban on singlehanding but the Insurance companies will shoot it dow. There are a lot of single handed fishing boats mind, expect they will still be ok.
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Indeed, isn't it already limited to 18 hours or thereabouts in most 'standard' policies?
 
Blue Sunray said:
Indeed, isn't it already limited to 18 hours or thereabouts in most 'standard' policies?
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That I dont know. I have met a couple of notable forum users however who are accomplished single handers. Mebbe they will know.

I do also have a couple of friends who are undeterred by distance sailing solo. One left here in Lanza in early January (arrived from Gib) and is now in Trinidad via Cape verdes and Guiyanaa ......without AIS.

The other left here last October bound non stop for New Zealand. Just getting a bit interested in not hearing from him yet. He does have AIS..... its my old school yacht and I fitted it!

But I post that to show the adventurous spirit is alive and well and some just get on with it. :cool:
 
Star-Lord said:
I will quote what I wrote yesterday, or the day before, answering capnsensible. Btw taking a 'position' is far removed from 'dictating.'
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You are taking a position that we all should be dictated to. That’s the same thing. I may defend my positions or not but I’m not saying anybody else should be compelled to do the same by law.

The idea of AIS at night remains a reflection of your own nervousness about boating at nighttime but your ruling would make large numbers of perfectly safe sailors illegal and confined to little coastal hops.
 
johnalison said:
I'm sure than is the case. It is sad but understandable. I can't imagine that insurers have information about the relative risks of sailing with or without AIS, or for that matter, radar, radio, or even a compass, so I think we are safe from the Star-lord taliban.
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I've heard it said that boats with more nav-aids often seem to have a higher risk.

For instance, some years ago I was contemplating fitting radar after a fog-blighted cruise. I got back to the UK and sat in a yacht club reading an article analysing yacht collisions in fog. Most of those who managed to hit ships had radar.
 
lw395 said:
I've heard it said that boats with more nav-aids often seem to have a higher risk.

For instance, some years ago I was contemplating fitting radar after a fog-blighted cruise. I got back to the UK and sat in a yacht club reading an article analysing yacht collisions in fog. Most of those who managed to hit ships had radar.
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Some people use radar so seldom they are not familiar with how it looks. Learn how to use it. AIS on boats in foggy areas would mean everyone would be safe - or at least be able to see where the other boats are.
 
I have been accused of, 'banging on about how the world changes into a place full of monsters at night'. And told I need help getting over my phobia. It has been said I am not confident in my ability and that I am nervous and insecure. I have been called a dictator and the taliban. And it has been suggested that I am not far removed from being a jobsworth and rule maker.

It is plainly obvious some of the members on this forum are not only ignorant but also deeply unpleasant. Nevertheless it has been a enjoyable discussion and I think looking back on the posts we can safely say that we are safer with AIS than without.
 
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