AIS thread drift.

[Uricanejack]

I have been accused of, 'banging on about how the world changes into a place full of monsters at night'. And told I need help getting over my phobia. It has been said I am not confident in my ability and that I am nervous and insecure. I have been called a dictator and the taliban. And it has been suggested that I am not far removed from being a jobsworth and rule maker.

It is plainly obvious some of the members on this forum are not only ignorant but also deeply unpleasant. Nevertheless it has been a enjoyable discussion and I think looking back on the posts we can safely say that we are safer with AIS than without.

Welcome to the forum

AIS best thing since sliced bread. Or maybe not. I appreciate a reasoned argument, many of which I disagree with.
Are we are safer with AIS than without. Yes.
There are many other things, we are safer with than without.
For pleasure vessels, personal choice rules. AIS is a nice to have, Should it be required? I believe not.

I expect it will be phased in eventually. For new larger vessels.

 

[Uricanejack]

Some people use radar so seldom they are not familiar with how it looks. Learn how to use it. AIS on boats in foggy areas would mean everyone would be safe - or at least be able to see where the other boats are.

I have my doubts about the use of AIS fog, If the AIS assisted collision hasn’t happened yet. I predict it will eventually.
Many people believe AIS plus plotter eliminates the need for radar.
Radar is also not required for pleasure vessels.
As you point out, lack of knowledge and familiarity with radar can be problematic.
Even so radar is much more reassuring in fog.

Sometimes I wonder if the improvements in the availability of reasonably priced gadgets. Reduces safety rather than improving it.

 

[johnalison]

I have my doubts about the use of AIS fog, If the AIS assisted collision hasn’t happened yet. I predict it will eventually.
Many people believe AIS plus plotter eliminates the need for radar.
Radar is also not required for pleasure vessels.
As you point out, lack of knowledge and familiarity with radar can be problematic.
Even so radar is much more reassuring in fog.

Sometimes I wonder if the improvements in the availability of reasonably priced gadgets. Reduces safety rather than improving it.

The most widely adopted piece of technology is presumably GPS. I wonder if it has made any difference to yacht safety or reduced the number of groundings? It has certainly made sailing more relaxing, but this, and AIS may be encouraging more sailors to extend their cruising grounds, sometimes beyond their level of competence, just as modern cars make drivers feel mre confident and liable to drive more recklessly.

 

[Star-Lord]

If we agree that we are safer with AIS than without - then people without AIS make it unsafe - because they can not make it equally safe - and they can not make it safer.

GPS and weather forecasts and communications have made a difference. I would say the single biggest help in my life as a sailor is having access to good weather forecasts. When I arrived in Sardinia I noticed the usual weather apps were a bit out! A local sailor told me about SardegnaArpa which is a web site giving 72 hour forecasts for Sardinia as a whole.

Regarding the reckless use of technology. ..I judge a man's level of competence by what he says and more importantly what he does - and hiding behind a computer and calling a fellow citizen 'the taliban' is an act tinged and tainted with every odious character flaw I can think of. For all the pretty pictures of birds hanging on the wall, and all the interesting books read, a man's soul can still be deeply dark and unpleasant.

 

[lw395]

If we agree that we are safer with AIS than without - then people without AIS make it unsafe - because they can not make it equally safe - and they can not make it safer.

GPS and weather forecasts and communications have made a difference. I would say the single biggest help in my life as a sailor is having access to good weather forecasts. When I arrived in Sardinia I noticed the usual weather apps were a bit out! A local sailor told me about SardegnaArpa which is a web site giving 72 hour forecasts for Sardinia as a whole.

Regarding the reckless use of technology. ..I judge a man's level of competence by what he says and more importantly what he does - and hiding behind a computer and calling a fellow citizen 'the taliban' is an act tinged and tainted with every odious character flaw I can think of. For all the pretty pictures of birds hanging on the wall, and all the interesting books read, a man's soul can still be deeply dark and unpleasant.

Singlehanders are, in my experience, poorly placed to lecture others when it comes to incident free yachting.
The best single safety aid on a boat is a crew.
AIS is great, but it's not magic and if it encourages people to be playing x-box on their plotter instead of looking out the window for the fishing boats which don't carry AIS, then it might not always be entirely positive.
The I in AIS stands for Identification, it's not really a stand-alone C/A system. Class B is really quite minimal in what it provides.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Regarding the reckless use of technology. ..I judge a man's level of competence by what he says and more importantly what he does - and hiding behind a computer and calling a fellow citizen 'the taliban' is an act tinged and tainted with every odious character flaw I can think of. For all the pretty pictures of birds hanging on the wall, and all the interesting books read, a man's soul can still be deeply dark and unpleasant.

Can I just reassure you that Taliban means "Students" or possibly by extension "educated ones".

However there do seem to be more than the normal number of right pancake chuckers on here at the moment.

 

[johnalison]

Can I just reassure you that Taliban means "Students" or possibly by extension "educated ones".

However there do seem to be more than the normal number of right pancake chuckers on here at the moment.

I just assume that there is not much to laugh at in Sardinia, so the natives get out of the habit.

 

[Star-Lord]

Singlehanders are, in my experience, poorly placed to lecture others when it comes to incident free yachting.
The best single safety aid on a boat is a crew.
AIS is great, but it's not magic and if it encourages people to be playing x-box on their plotter instead of looking out the window for the fishing boats which don't carry AIS, then it might not always be entirely positive.
The I in AIS stands for Identification, it's not really a stand-alone C/A system. Class B is really quite minimal in what it provides.

And if that crew goes overboard in a big sea their chances of survival will increase if they have AIS in their lifejacket.

I agree class B is a compromise. If I had regular crew to care about I would think about upgrading to class A.

Radar is great at spotting Fishermen who are required to have AIS - but do not.

P.S. Tell Captain Bligh the best single safety aid on a boat is crew! But seriously there is crew and there is crew and this point could be discussed for many many pages! I mean seriously there has to be more incidents of boats getting into trouble 'with crew' than I can shake a stick at

And regarding laughing and forgetting - the judgment stands.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I just assume that there is not much to laugh at in Sardinia, so the natives get out of the habit.

Pilchards?

 

[Star-Lord]

Pilchards?

Not very clever!

 

[Star-Lord]

Just a technical point, VHF radios feature DSC, digital selective calling which in corporates a distress button. GMDSS is a complete safety system used on commercial vessels that happens to incorporate DSC VHF's.

Global Maritime Distress and Safety System - Wikipedia

As mentioned by others the B&G V60-B will give AIS TX as well and allows DSC calls to be initiated from AIS targets on the plotter.

Alternatively, any B&G VHF will initiate calls from the Zeus if a separate AIS is in the system.

I see absolutely no point whatsoever fitting receive only AIS, just spend the extra so that other vessels can see you as well.

As a footnote, one of my customers lives was saved when he was badly injured whilst fishing solo, he could only call for assistance on his mobile phone, but the Coastguard helicopter flew in directly on his AIS position.

Lifted from another thread. Posted by yachtbits a moment ago. You will note AIS was a good choice for this customer!

 

[Blue Sunray]

Not very clever!

But probably brighter than your average herring.

 

[yachtbits]

Just spotted this thread as a result of @Star-Lord linking my post elsewhere.

The outcome of that incident was he lost a leg from the knee down, well he'd actually lost it before he called for help. He is back fishing complete with false leg and with a few extra belt guards in the engine room!

Ouzo, we need to remember that in 2006, AIS was still in its infancy, class A had only been around for 4 years and the spec for class B was only released that year. Many chartplotters still couldn't support AIS back then, and a few still can't!

 

[yachtbits]

And here is a simple comparison between class B SOTDMA and CSTDMA

SOTDMA vs CSDTMA

 

[LadyInBed]

Indeed, isn't it already limited to 18 hours or thereabouts in most 'standard' policies?

Pants don't put a restriction on solo hours. when I switched from them I questioned their solo hours clause and they said 18 hours without sleeping. You can do a solo 3 day passage providing you take regular naps.

 

[Deleted member 478]

And here is a simple comparison between class B SOTDMA and CSTDMA

SOTDMA vs CSDTMA

Great info, thank you.
There's a minor typo

The CSTDMA device claims its transmission slot but is no guaranteed it.

... no guarantee of it or something like that?
Hope that helps?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Pants don't put a restriction on solo hours. when I switched from them I questioned their solo hours clause and they said 18 hours without sleeping. You can do a solo 3 day passage providing you take regular naps.

Nav and Gen. "Single handed use – for passages not exceeding 24 hours"
I guess my 18 days was stretching that a tad!! I must be a reckless singlehander. Oh well!

I do like AIS though, and I get well over 20 miles range (mast height 11 meters).
Very handy crossing busy lanes. In this case it was just south of Lisbon,

 

[Lightwave395]

I have my doubts about the use of AIS fog, If the AIS assisted collision hasn’t happened yet. I predict it will eventually.
Many people believe AIS plus plotter eliminates the need for radar.
Radar is also not required for pleasure vessels.
As you point out, lack of knowledge and familiarity with radar can be problematic.
Even so radar is much more reassuring in fog.

Sometimes I wonder if the improvements in the availability of reasonably priced gadgets. Reduces safety rather than improving it.

Confess I can't agree with that having narrowly avoided a possible incident with a very large dredger crossing the St Nazaire entrance channel in thick fog last year, thanks to my AIS and his

 

[doug748]

Confess I can't agree with that having narrowly avoided a possible incident with a very large dredger crossing the St Nazaire entrance channel in thick fog last year, thanks to my AIS and his

Indeed.
Bit of 90deg thread drift here but:

Most chat about yachty AIS centres on crossing big channels and mixing it with tankers etc. However it is ace at the very smallest scale, at close quarters.

You often get fog in the Du Four and you know you will have tons of small boats coming the other way towards the end of the trip. Seeing the AIS is a big help - alongside keeping outside the main buoyage using your chart plotter.
There will be those without AIS so I have my trusty platelayers horn.


.

 

[Star-Lord]

Pants don't put a restriction on solo hours. when I switched from them I questioned their solo hours clause and they said 18 hours without sleeping. You can do a solo 3 day passage providing you take regular naps.

When I first questioned Pants a number of years ago about solo sailing they said that 24 hrs was the max. I recently inquired about a couple of 50hr passages planned for the neat future and this was their response....

'Thank you for your email of 4th March 2020. We note your comments and we would advise that single handed sailing is covered within Mediterranean waters but not for the passages to and from the Canaries and Madeira which are the subject of an extension to your cruising area.

If you do not intend to sail to the Canaries or Madeira please let us know and we will remove the cruising area extension.

We trust that this provides sufficient clarification . Please do not hesitate to contact us if we can be of any further assistance.'