AIS thread drift.

Muddy32

Muddy32

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Following the above thread I have had little to do, so have been looking at shipping in the corridor I cross between Start point/Brixham and Cherbourg/Guernsey.
A i suspected few are doing 20+ its and seem to average about 8-10kts. Hence easy for me to use the Mk1 eyeball to avoid a collision when I cross the channel, without AIS saving money on buying an "essential bit of kit" that everyone seems to need, and follow religiously rather than look out of the boat.
Now ducking.
 
Bit of a bold statement which quite frankly is simply nonsense. Do you really believe that people don't "look out of the boat"?

AIS, like radar, is an aid to navigation and its relevance is largely commensurate with visibility conditions. AS for the old "Mk1 eyeball" cliche, perhaps you've never been caught out in fog or a thunderstorm and noticed the limitations of "Mk1 eyeball ".

Neither AIS nor radar are "essential", but they can certainly help in tough conditions.
 
I think the reduction in use of the mk 1 eyeball is more evident on the large ships which might run down a yacht. So I'm not so keen on receive only AIS - which I used to have - and now am a convert to one which can transmit. My 'Damascus road' was actually in the Faeroes when we stuck close to a yacht with AIS Tx while we only had AIS Rx in rather poor vis , and to my surprise and gratification I saw that all the commercial craft altered course to go round us (well, round the other boat as they couldn't see us).
 
Having found myself in thick fog mid-channel, hearing a ship's engines getting closer, but unable to see the ship, I think that either radar or AIS - preferably both on a bigger boat is now an entirely reasonable requirement crossing the Channel. I sail on a very small budget, but I'd find the money for the NASA box if I were crossing regularly. I can't imaging the Ouzo tragedy happening if Ouzo had been using AIS.

The Mk 1 eyeball is a wonderful thing, but it does have its limitations. To go back in time a while, many people crossed the Channel safely without GPS but, while my navigational skills are still up to the job, I wouldn't set off without GPS now.
 
Good for you with your x-ray vision. Even the simple task of leaving Oban Bay is much stress-reduced by having AIS. Personally, I can't see through the island of Kerrera to see if a large vessel with right of way is approaching. Without AIS I used to peep round the corner and be ready to use the engine in iffy sailing conditions. Now I know well in advance and can dick around a bit if necessary to allow a ship that is invisible to me (no x-ray eyes) to come in. (Yes, I know the Calmac ferries should tell you on VHF - and they are good about doing so, but the amount of advance notice is a little variable). From the AIS I also get CPA and time to CPA, which is a little harder to calculate with the eyeball. It is also a goodish idea to look where you are going - and behind you for that matter. And this is all in daylight. There was also the time I left Dover in the dark in fog... but that's another story.
 
Amulet said:
Good for you with your x-ray vision. Even the simple task of leaving Oban Bay is much stress-reduced by having AIS. Personally, I can't see through the island of Kerrera to see if a large vessel with right of way is approaching. Without AIS I used to peep round the corner and be ready to use the engine in iffy sailing conditions. Now I know well in advance and can dick around a bit if necessary to allow a ship that is invisible to me (no x-ray eyes) to come in. (Yes, I know the Calmac ferries should tell you on VHF - and they are good about doing so, but the amount of advance notice is a little variable). From the AIS I also get CPA and time to CPA, which is a little harder to calculate with the eyeball. It is also a goodish idea to look where you are going - and behind you for that matter. And this is all in daylight. There was also the time I left Dover in the dark in fog... but that's another story.
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No vessel ever has "right of way" no matter how big it is (unless you both are racing).
 
doug748 said:
Over the years, I can think of only three gadgets that I had to have, as soon I clapped my eyes on them:

1) Roller reefing headsail gear.
2) Chart plotter.
3) AIS receiver.
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Very understandable. What do the team think could be the next on this list of essentials?
 
I've crossed the Channel a fair number of times and, curiously, the greatest difficulty I have had has been with slow-moving vessels, where AIS has been of great benefit. The fast ones just zip by and are easy to judge by eye.
 
johnalison said:
I've crossed the Channel a fair number of times and, curiously, the greatest difficulty I have had has been with slow-moving vessels, where AIS has been of great benefit. The fast ones just zip by and are easy to judge by eye.
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In the North Sea most of those 'slow moving' vessels are anchored!

Edit: which for myself, is why AIS is such an excellent addition.
 
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awol said:
No vessel ever has "right of way" no matter how big it is (unless you both are racing).
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I think , Oban bay there is , last time I was there last year the local information pointed out that the ferries had right away in the deep water channel and us mere mortals should get out the way or move closer to shore when transiting , but I defer to those that live there
 
FlyingGoose said:
I think , Oban bay there is , last time I was there last year the local information pointed out that the ferries had right away in the deep water channel and us mere mortals should get out the way or move closer to shore when transiting , but I defer to those that live there
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The words used are "Small vessels of less than 20m in length and all sailing vessels should not impede the safe passage of a large vessel entering or leaving the bay. " Nothing about "right of way".
 
awol said:
The words used are "Small vessels of less than 20m in length and all sailing vessels should not impede the safe passage of a large vessel entering or leaving the bay. " Nothing about "right of way".
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Word play , ferries are well known to tell you to move out of there way due to restrictions if a ferry entered the channel and you were leaving Oban you would be obliged under the term to move out of the middle of said channel to allow ferry unhindered access through marked channel , therefore they have the right of way under a legal definition , i,e you should not be there and if you cause an accident or force the ferry to alter course and in grounds one might conclude you were at fault IMHO no legal expert here.
They should avoid using the designated large vessel channel that runs through the centre of the north entrance. Small vessels are reminded that they may be very difficult to see and that the North Channel is a blind bend to ships navigating along it.
Oban Harbour Navigation

Same as Ardrossan Harbour were the Traffic light system is in use giving either the Ferry right of way ( priority no boats allowed into or exit the harbour )or Boats entering the marina , to be honest the English language can be twisted and used so much it takes a lawyer to work out the detail/
 
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I am not arguing about the realities of staying out the way of ferries and in my opinion once Oban harbour has its official status it should make by-laws making it a legal requirement just like at Ardrossan. Until then IRPCS rules.
I just wish sailors would stop using "right of way" - it shows a failure to read and/or understand the IRPCS.
 
awol said:
I just wish sailors would stop using "right of way" - it shows a failure to read and/or understand the IRPCS.
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The difference between "right of way" and "stand on" is so slight that it's simply not worth getting your knicks in a twist over.

Imagine you are in a car, which does have right of way, and a car pulls out some distance in front of you and you don't make any attempt to avoid a collision but simply glide on into the side of the car. When the Police Officer arrives you explain to him that you had right of way. How do you think that is going to end? ;)

Richard
 
RichardS said:
The difference between "right of way" and "stand on" is so slight that it's simply not worth getting your knicks in a twist over.

Imagine you are in a car, which does have right of way, and a car pulls out some distance in front of you and you don't make any attempt to avoid a collision but simply glide on into the side of the car. When the Police Officer arrives you explain to him that you had right of way. How do you think that is going to end? ;)

Richard
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I am happy for you to prove me wrong but I do not believe "right of way " appears in the UK Highway Code. The "slight" difference is that "stand on" imposes obligations whereas "right of way" implies rights.
 
I agree that ais is not necessary, along with gps ,sat nav for cars, even dsc radio, but they are all such great things to have and make life so much easier.
Now who doesn't secretly try to go faster when running parallel to another yacht?
Ais is great to see how fast your "competitor" is moving .
I find it fascinating looking at marine traffic on a stormy evening and seeing just how many are out there and seeing the journeys they have done
 
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