Air conditioning

dune16

dune16

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Milton Keynes - Boat in Croatia
www.noforeignland.com
I am considering getting air condition fitted to our Dufour 430, we currently have a portable unit but this is always in the way. I want the install as simple as possible. For simplicity I think having a self contained unit just blowing into the salon would be sufficient for our needs, we're not looking to make the interior like a fridge, we just want to take the edge off the heat considering the boat is in the Med. We'd also only use this when in a marina.

Something like the Webasto BlueCool S series seems to fit the bill as this can be neatly installed under one of the seats in the salon.

https://www.webasto-comfort.com/fil...heets/BlueCool-S-Series-230V_datasheet_EN.pdf

I'd appreciate any feedback on air conditioning solutions, also if anyone has done this in the Valencia area and has any recommendations on installers?

Thanks in advance.
 
I cant give you any guidance on the Valencia area - sorry.

As to A/C.

Unfortuantely the installation of A/C and simple rarely together. Slotting the actual unit in place is straight forward enough assuming there is room. The unit will of course require a power supply and seperate fuses and switches so there is some electrical work involved, which, while not difficult, as ever takes three times as long on a yacht than it would any where else where these is working room. The A/C will also require a seawater supply, so thought will need to be given to the where to take off the raw seawater in and out, and where to locate the pump, again with its power supply. The control unit is almost the final bit of the puzzle and perhaps the most straight forward - one wire between the units. Finally the cooling "radiator" will produce lots of condensate - making sure this can be lead away and either taken to the bilges (less good) or through the hull will complete the install, of course with some holes for the cold air in take, output and vents. i would be surprised if it could be done in less than a couple of days.

From experience I think common mistakes are not giving enough thought to noise. A/C is noisy. I would definitely look at the new D/C units which have just come out and I gather are much less noisy. Secondaly, dont position the raw water out any more than a few inches above the water line - there is nothing more annoying some will say than being tied up to another yacht with the A/C running and the sound of continous running water. Third, it is welll worth investing in a good raw water pump. Over its life it will do a lot of work and it is pumping sea water so there are obvious consequence if you fit a cheap pump. Finally I think there is a lot of rubbish about the position of the air in and out vents. I have no doubt as far apart as possible and with the out vent raised makes some sense, but practically there is little consequence and the job may be a lot easier to have them side by side. Oh and so many kits come with cheap spiral flexible ducting with an aluminium foil covering - its ok but is fiddly and difficult to get to seal well. A much better job will result by using solid ducting and keep the run to an absolute minimium.

All that said very well worth it. Dont have too high expectation about dramatic cooling, but as you mention you dont and that is the right approach. It will take the edge off the saloon temperature but only if you go at the least with the manufacturers receommendation of BTU to cabin size. These I think are the minimium, will do a more than adequate job within the parameters mentioned, but if you really want to drop the temperature from say 80F to 65F then a unit of this size will not be sufficinet. A 10 degree F drop is realistic which improves once the sun has gone down.

Is it worth doing - yes definitely. I personally think the sleeping quarters benefit more, it is lovely to go to bed in a cool cabin, but equally sitting in a cool saloon after the heat of the day is very pleasant.

I cant speak from expereince about the new DC units, but also dont expect to be able to run A/C without shore power or a Genset. If you have a very large bank and inverter you may run a small unit off the batteries (I do with 1,200 Amps), but even then it canes the batteries pretty quickly. Obvioulsy off the Genset there will be a start up spike so think about compatability for any Genset less than 5KW, and perhaps a soft start could be the answer. I run three units on a 8KW Genset with soft start and it works fine. My inverter would trip without soft start.

Oh and a lot of the units offer reverse cycle heating with very little price difference - this is really efficient and if you are going to use the boat in the winter may be worth specifying. It does work very well, possibly even better than the A/C in terms of warming the cabin even when the water temperature is only a little above zero C.

Sorry if you knew all this, just relating my experience for dissecting the bits than might be relevant.
 
I fitted AC on my boat and doing some investigation I fitted a system that had a separated compressor system to the cooler system

Mine was originally designed for use in shops in a shopping center. The waste heat is extracted by a water cooling system that I run through a keel cooler. The compressor unit is fitted in my engine room so the sound insulation keeps the noise of the compresser down.

The cooling init is fitted under the berths and are a slow speed fan to also keep the noise down.

I fitted mine was fitted during construction and is mains powered either from a generator of shore power.

I had a number of portable units in my office but piping the waste heat on a boat can be an issue so reducing the effectiveness of the unit
 
Pcatterall - I agree, I dont, but I recall reading reports suggesting this was so. I have no experience. It maybe they just run a smaller compressor.

This seems typical which refers to low noise, but compared with what? Not sure if this was the make I read about however.

https://www.coastalclimatecontrol.c...wered_by_12v_dc_and_110v_ac_with_inverter.pdf

Rogershaw - I would have liked to fit a remote system and of course they are also commercially available. Space to fit the main compressor is inevitably a consideration as well as a little more pipework. I think you have a better system and of course it would be far easier to sound insulate the compressor which makes all the noise.
 
I had a clima compact on my boat. Very tidy unit it sat on a shelf against the hull high up in a cock pit locker. It free air from this an blew it into the aft cabin and the saloon. Sea water in to a pump via a thruhilull just below the waterline and an outlet just above ..(if possible run the outlet into the galley outlet and thus silence the constant dribble)

System was really brilliant and sits in my shed in anticipation of being fitted again in a Med boat.

Highly recommend that you get a system... Make up a box the size of the unit and you will be able to try out possible fitting locations ..
 
This is one of the cooling and fan units under the saloon seating

36046322576_e0c8ef9438_c.jpg


This is one of the compressor units. Made by Mcquay

36086113115_2af3a2eb3f_c.jpg


My units do have a wireless and wired remote control unit.
 
Our previous boat, an Island Packet 350 had a Cruiseair system that could be reverse cycled as a heater. 1500 BTU IIRC.

It worked far better as an aircon unit than as a heat source.

Needed shore power or generator and was, IMO, too noisy to sleep with it going.

It was, as was the rest of the mains powered gear, 120V.

A big transformer sorted that.

The little yellow building site one that came with the boat kept blowing up.....................................
 
I second the thought about the outlet and would say it needs to be even lower as if your neighbour is not airconditioned and enjoying a balmy night with a bit of breeze then all hatches will be wide open so they will here the continuous tap pouring right by them. This is highly irritating.
 
am I the only one where the outlet is underwater (1m from the inlet actually...)?
doesn't have to be over the waterline!
 
We were able to fit a 'portable' unit under our companionway steps. The hot air produced is blown out into the 'engine room' and we fit a slatted cover there to allow the heat out. It all works great, on shore power of course.
It is used in the marina only. When at anchor we usually find a bit more breeze and rig awnings and wind scoops.
We may try to route the heat out better as the engine gets hot and when the ac goes off, continues to give off heat.
Worth considering if your layout allows it.
 
I used to fit many many cruisair, condaria and marineair air conditioners when I was a dealer for them in Mallorca. What we used to do quite regularly was fit one unit say 16,000 btu in the saloon and then fit extractor fans in the top of the bulkhead to each cabin aft or forwards rather than ducting air we felt that cooling the saloon and recirculating air from the saloon to the cabins with the main hatch shut saves loads of space and noise. Then return air grilles to allow the extractors to drag warm air from the cabin to the saloon and cold air to come in through the return air vent. The fan can have a speed control In the cabin. This gives control for the cabin and makes it very quiet. The clients we did this for were very happy with it.
 
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