After only 7 hours, our Mercruiser engine is terminal

[Lucyh1974]

I'm struggling to find anything on the internet regarding my legal rights. If anyone can advise I would be most grateful.

We bought our 25 year old Searay in January/February 2013 and had a full survey and service done at that time.

Since then, we have only done 7 hours in her (all of this has been under the supervision of a RYA qualified skipper). We had some issues on our last trip out (mid June) and havent used her since. We have since had the boat engine surveyed and have now been told the engine is irreparable / terminal.

Our concern is where do we stand on our Consumer Rights? Does the Sale of Goods Act come into this as it would with a 2nd hand car, for example. And what are the chances of us getting some (if not the majority) of our money back?

Thanks in advance for any helpful advice.

LH

 

[prv]

While, strictly speaking, the Sale of Goods Act does apply to a second-hand car (and boat, etc), the useful bits that people usually mean when they refer to the Act apply only for consumers buying from retail businesses. I.e. not second hand cars and not second hand boats, unless you were buying from a dealer. Usually in the boating world you're buying from another private individual, possibly via a broker acting as their agent, and you buy the boat as seen. If you didn't have the engine surveyed before agreeing to buy it, that's your problem. Sorry. If you did have the engine surveyed, then in theory you might have some comeback against the surveyor, but only if the problem was so obvious that he was negligent not to spot it. You will not have any comeback against the seller unless he actively lied to you.

Pete

 

[maby]

What's the cause? I think your position would depend very much on the cause of the problem - you are talking about six months since you bought the boat and I would think that your chances of getting any significant compensation must be getting rather low. Was it a private purchase, or was a broker involved?

If you could show that the problem was related to the service having been done incorrectly, you may have a claim against the company that did it?

 

[pvb]

I think a bit more information on the background might help people to advise you, but theoretically the Sales of Goods Act ought to cover it. Goods should be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. If the engine has failed after only 7 hours' use, you could argue that it had an underlying undisclosed fault when you bought it. The RYA qualified skipper would presumably be able to testify that the engine hasn't been abused by you. However, if you had the boat surveyed prior to purchase, the seller could argue that your surveyor should have discovered a latent defect. You might end up having to sue the seller and the surveyor. If the seller is a private individual, there might be no chance of recovering money. It's a messy situation.

 

[maby]

I think a bit more information on the background might help people to advise you, but theoretically the Sales of Goods Act ought to cover it. Goods should be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. If the engine has failed after only 7 hours' use, you could argue that it had an underlying undisclosed fault when you bought it. The RYA qualified skipper would presumably be able to testify that the engine hasn't been abused by you. However, if you had the boat surveyed prior to purchase, the seller could argue that your surveyor should have discovered a latent defect. You might end up having to sue the seller and the surveyor. If the seller is a private individual, there might be no chance of recovering money. It's a messy situation.

Not that clear cut -

"Firstly, remember that the statutory entitlement of quality and fitness for purpose only applies when buying from someone who is ‘acting in the course of a business’ i.e a second-hand car dealer. You do not have any legal recourse as regards quality where you are buying through an individual who is selling an item as a one-off private sale (although they must have legal title and it must be as described in the advert).

Secondly, when buying second hand, there is a general recognition in law that the reduced price you pay reflects the risk in taking ownership of something with a greater likelihood of developing faults or breaking down completely. You pay less because it is recognised you will have to pay the repair costs yourself rather than relying on the manufacturer’s warranty.

But what if you buy something which breaks down shortly afterwards leaving you with a massive repair bill. Could you argue that the seller was aware of this fault but said nothing? This may be difficult to prove.

Or is it the case that it is something a pre-sale examination by you should have revealed? Not if the fault only because apparent after some weeks of use.

Depending on the problems encountered (safety implications for example, if it is a car), the length of time you’ve had it, the price you paid and your expectations of the future usage, you may have a good chance of rejecting the item and claiming a full refund.


Read more: http://whatconsumer.co.uk/second-hand/#ixzz2aXvmi9AF "

After six months, the previous owner could reasonably claim that it is no longer his responsibility...

 

[bendyone]

"had a full survey and service done at that time" by whom? Did you have a full engine survey?

 

[prv]

the Sales of Goods Act ought to cover it. Goods should be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.

...if bought from a business. If I sell you a washing machine in the free-ads, I quite rightly expect the deal to be final when you hand over the small wad of tenners, not for you to bring it back a week later and try to reverse the sale. Same applies to any sale between two private individuals, unless the seller deliberately misleads the buyer. Caveat emptor is the phrase.

I believe people in the motorboat world are a little more likely to buy from dealers rather than brokers (more like a car) so maybe the OP will get a good result. But if it was a private sale, then he bought the boat as sold, together with any faults it may or may not have had.

Pete

 

[pvb]

Not that clear cut -

I don't think I suggested it was clear cut; indeed I said (with some understatement) that it's a messy situation. But more background info is certainly needed from the OP.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

After six months I think it is unlikely you'll get any help from the seller.

You may be better trying to get the engine sorted. What's wrong with it?

 

[maby]

I don't think I suggested it was clear cut; indeed I said (with some understatement) that it's a messy situation. But more background info is certainly needed from the OP.

Hmmm, the whatconsumer advice does say that " the statutory entitlement of quality and fitness for purpose only applies when buying from someone who is ‘acting in the course of a business’ "...

Their best bet is to claim against the professional indemnity of the surveyor or the company that did the engine service.

 

[pvb]

Hmmm, the whatconsumer advice does say that " the statutory entitlement of quality and fitness for purpose only applies when buying from someone who is ‘acting in the course of a business’ "...

And we don't know who the OP bought from, do we? Which is why I said more background info is needed. But it's worth noting that private sellers are also liable if they've misdescribed goods, although successfully claiming against them is very difficult.

 

[maby]

And we don't know who the OP bought from, do we? Which is why I said more background info is needed. But it's worth noting that private sellers are also liable if they've misdescribed goods, although successfully claiming against them is very difficult.

You are quite right and I stand corrected!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Did the survey include an engine survey? Most marine surveyors do not include the engine in their survey, beyond a cursory check for leaks. They may not even run it; a marine survey is usually conducted out of the water, so it is not possible to run the engine. A separate engine survey is usually required. If you had an engine survey, or it was explicitly included in the marine surveyor's report, then you may be able to claim against the engineer who carried out the survey. Otherwise, as others have pointed out, you have little chance of claiming from the seller unless you bought her from a company - which is very unlikely. Brokers are only people who arrange the sale and make sure the paper-work is OK; they are not the sellers except in exceptional cases.

I would say that you should certainly have a second opinion about the state of the engine. Marine engineers sometimes inflate the magnitude of a problem rather than properly investigating it, resulting in more work being carried out than is strictly necessary. Further, marine engines are often able to be worked on by amateurs; even I, a mechanical ignoramus, have managed to remove, clean and replace the cylinder head on my Volvo 2003! A mechanic would have charged many expensive hours of labour; I did it over a few days, and learnt a lot while doing it.

 

[ninky]

I'd call the RYA and ask their advice (you will need to be a member). Good luck, a miserable situation to be in - and one reason I am reluctant to buy an old boat with an inboard engine! My experience is that 90 percent of boat owning stress is caused by engines.

 

[Lakesailor]

We had some issues on our last trip out (mid June) and havent used her since. We have since had the boat engine surveyed and have now been told the engine is irreparable / terminal.

Are these issues related to the engine condition?

It is very unlikely that the motor is not repairable. It just depends what is wrong and how deep your pockets are. Tha age and value of the boat may mean there isn't a lot of point in spending heavily on the motor.

 

[bendyone]

Total guess -- Engine is a 5.7l V8 and the exhaust risers have gone and dropped water into the engine.

 

[tyce]

Welcome to boating, complete waste of time chasing anyone for compo, you will be laughed at I'm afraid. Time to get your hand in your pocket.
And learn to fix it yourself you will save a fortune.

 

[Spyro]

Welcome to boating, complete waste of time chasing anyone for compo, you will be laughed at I'm afraid. Time to get your hand in your pocket.
And learn to fix it yourself you will save a fortune.

Harsh but probably true. Lets not forget this is a 25 year old engine, how much would you think it is worth? You couldn't possibly expect the price of a new engine even if there was some sort of claim on the seller.
If a small part fails e.g. Impeller and causes more severe damage how is that the fault of the seller or surveyor.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Welcome to boating, complete waste of time chasing anyone for compo, you will be laughed at I'm afraid. Time to get your hand in your pocket.
And learn to fix it yourself you will save a fortune.

Yes maybe harsh but much along the lines of what I was thinking. Cat in bells chance were my words.

 

[l'escargot]

If you have just had a full engine survey done after 5 months because you developed problems it sounds like you didn't have one done when you bought the boat. If that is the case, you gambled and lost.

Assuming that it was a private sale, there is no real recourse against the previous owner of a 25 year old boat that you bought at a price you considered fair taking into account it's age and condition. Sounds a bit harsh but I'm afraid that's how it is.

I would get a second opinion on the engine though, something that is beyond economical repair by a main dealer isn't necessarily beyond repair in other ways.