After 2 hours at anchor both engines refused to crank (not battery)

You're going round in circles here a bit.

What is the voltage at the starter motor terminals when the key is turned to engage the starter (and the engine doesn't start)?
 
jakew009 said:
You're going round in circles here a bit.

What is the voltage at the starter motor terminals when the key is turned to engage the starter (and the engine doesn't start)?
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Sorry Jake, thanks for calling this out. Have got an engineer now to help but he also scratching his head at this stage. Not sure of exact voltage (he was reading) but I know in order to start them up (on battery) he needed to use a “probe” and put 12v onto the trigger wire on the starter solenoid, so guessing this is ultimately where there is not enough volts.
 
Meagain said:
Sorry Jake, thanks for calling this out. Have got an engineer now to help but he also scratching his head at this stage. Not sure of exact voltage (he was reading) but I know in order to start them up (on battery) he needed to use a “probe” and put 12v onto the trigger wire on the starter solenoid, so guessing this is ultimately where there is not enough volts.
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Sounds like you need a different engineer (or he's not explaining it to you well).

If the engines start when the solenoid is manually triggered, that narrows it down a lot.

Get him to actually measure the voltage on the starter solenoid trigger wire when they key is turned. It's either going to be 0V, ~12V or something in between.
 
BTW, it's even weirder that the same problem is happening on both engines. I suspect you will be seeing 0V on both solenoids, and there is some safety interlock that is preventing both engines from starting.
 
going along the silly q route :-)

when you say you measure 12.7V (or whatever) where is the black probe of your multimeter? guess engine block?
can you measure bat - to engine block and can you check that wiring (if you can spot it that is!)

V.
 
vas said:
going along the silly q route :)

when you say you measure 12.7V (or whatever) where is the black probe of your multimeter? guess engine block?
can you measure bat - to engine block and can you check that wiring (if you can spot it that is!)

V.
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Hi Vas
The multimeter black probe was to -ve battery terminal (not block). I did wonder this morning if that was a schoolboy error as half realised that by doing this I’m missing out the -ve linkage from block to battery. To be honest starting doubting myself. Sounds like you are politely telling got this wrong…. So should do again with black probe on engine block. Not clear on then measuring block to - batt terminal.
 
Meagain said:
Hi Vas
The multimeter black probe was to -ve battery terminal (not block). I did wonder this morning if that was a schoolboy error as half realised that by doing this I’m missing out the -ve linkage from block to battery. To be honest starting doubting myself. Sounds like you are politely telling got this wrong…. So should do again with black probe on engine block. Not clear on then measuring block to - batt terminal.
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as others implied, you can easily get in a situation where the multimeter shows normal voltage but when some device tries to draw a few (ok, sometimes much more than a few!) amps, voltage drops to to silly values due to vertigris, loose connections, damaged/corroded cables, etc.

So yes, would also do the tests with black probe on block (clean unpainted bit obvs!) and red prob on where you'd expect 12V in the starter/solenoid
but then I'd also do that with someone turning the key. You may see the 12.7 dipping to 3 or 4V when the key is turned (or starter button pressed - dunno what's on your engines)

a load test on the batteries wouldn't go amiss also if you have the right tool to test them that is.
 
vas said:
as others implied, you can easily get in a situation where the multimeter shows normal voltage but when some device tries to draw a few (ok, sometimes much more than a few!) amps, voltage drops to to silly values due to vertigris, loose connections, damaged/corroded cables, etc.

So yes, would also do the tests with black probe on block (clean unpainted bit obvs!) and red prob on where you'd expect 12V in the starter/solenoid
but then I'd also do that with someone turning the key. You may see the 12.7 dipping to 3 or 4V when the key is turned (or starter button pressed - dunno what's on your engines)

a load test on the batteries wouldn't go amiss also if you have the right tool to test them that is.
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Many thanks
 
The fix used by your engineer is not one I would recommend on the D4 evc system , it could have done damage to the system , the idea of the evc system is to only supply a start signal trough the system when everything else is working , every time you turn the ignition on the system carries out a test .

These guys do not carry a vodia to fully check the system out , they really should before they do anything else , breakdown companies like the AA and RAC would automatically check the engine before doing anything else.
I would suggest the start issue lies elsewhere because both engines are linked together via can bus , a simple reason fir example the throttle lever in gear or the trim of the drive beyond plus limit would cut out the start circuit, or the shift actuator not giving the neutral position to the ecu , did he check over anything prior to the jump start ? Imagine you have an oil pressure issue and there he goes bypassing and running your engines , I’ll call it a day for now.
 
volvopaul said:
The fix used by your engineer is not one I would recommend on the D4 evc system , it could have done damage to the system , the idea of the evc system is to only supply a start signal trough the system when everything else is working , every time you turn the ignition on the system carries out a test .

These guys do not carry a vodia to fully check the system out , they really should before they do anything else , breakdown companies like the AA and RAC would automatically check the engine before doing anything else.
I would suggest the start issue lies elsewhere because both engines are linked together via can bus , a simple reason fir example the throttle lever in gear or the trim of the drive beyond plus limit would cut out the start circuit, or the shift actuator not giving the neutral position to the ecu , did he check over anything prior to the jump start ? Imagine you have an oil pressure issue and there he goes bypassing and running your engines , I’ll call it a day for now.
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Thanks Paul, yes doing that (calling it a day) I over simplified above post for brevity as been two engineers. one was the AA of the sea ! That used the approach to start and get me home!, one helping now, has been checking things as per your comments, (not sure if they have a vodia) so going to leave them to it and hope for the best. Fact it’s happening to both I think is making him look elsewhere too. I just kept going back to the fact both starter motors where changed! But having to accept too much of coincidence that there could be a fault on each, so must be something new. Nothing happening now until at least Tuesday when back to work. Appreciate you chiming in with comments.
 
volvopaul said:
The fix used by your engineer is not one I would recommend on the D4 evc system , it could have done damage to the system , the idea of the evc system is to only supply a start signal trough the system when everything else is working , every time you turn the ignition on the system carries out a test .

These guys do not carry a vodia to fully check the system out , they really should before they do anything else , breakdown companies like the AA and RAC would automatically check the engine before doing anything else.
I would suggest the start issue lies elsewhere because both engines are linked together via can bus , a simple reason fir example the throttle lever in gear or the trim of the drive beyond plus limit would cut out the start circuit, or the shift actuator not giving the neutral position to the ecu , did he check over anything prior to the jump start ? Imagine you have an oil pressure issue and there he goes bypassing and running your engines , I’ll call it a day for now.
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I agree with VP.

See my post #11
 
I had this exact same scenario on a D4 engined boat I owned 10 years ago. Eventually went back to basics and discovered the starter batteries were right on the edge of CAA (cold cranking amps) required. I doubled up the starter batteries as I could not fiind room for a single battery to meet spec and never had that random start stop but always started on shore power ever again. I was surprised that such a large boat manufacturer had installed a D4 with a marginal to specification battery solution, this was a new boat.
 
wakeup said:
I had this exact same scenario on a D4 engined boat I owned 10 years ago. Eventually went back to basics and discovered the starter batteries were right on the edge of CAA (cold cranking amps) required. I doubled up the starter batteries as I could not fiind room for a single battery to meet spec and never had that random start stop but always started on shore power ever again. I was surprised that such a large boat manufacturer had installed a D4 with a marginal to specification battery solution, this was a new boat.
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Forgot to mention, go and read the installation and set up manual for the D4 and check the CCA minimum spec and then check the same for your battery , you might be surprised, I was!
 
Meagain said:
Thanks Paul, yes doing that (calling it a day) I over simplified above post for brevity as been two engineers. one was the AA of the sea ! That used the approach to start and get me home!, one helping now, has been checking things as per your comments, (not sure if they have a vodia) so going to leave them to it and hope for the best. Fact it’s happening to both I think is making him look elsewhere too. I just kept going back to the fact both starter motors where changed! But having to accept too much of coincidence that there could be a fault on each, so must be something new. Nothing happening now until at least Tuesday when back to work. Appreciate you chiming in with comments.
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If they don't have Vodia I would find someone who does. If the EVC software says 'no' ask the software 'why'. It documents it's decisions.
 
Meagain said:
Thanks Paul, yes doing that (calling it a day) I over simplified above post for brevity as been two engineers. one was the AA of the sea ! That used the approach to start and get me home!, one helping now, has been checking things as per your comments, (not sure if they have a vodia) so going to leave them to it and hope for the best. Fact it’s happening to both I think is making him look elsewhere too. I just kept going back to the fact both starter motors where changed! But having to accept too much of coincidence that there could be a fault on each, so must be something new. Nothing happening now until at least Tuesday when back to work. Appreciate you chiming in with comments.
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So you have had this issue before ? Someone fitted new starter motors to cure it ? Did they test the old starter motor’s when they were removed the good old fashioned way with a battery and a pair of jump leads ?
 
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Why would they change both starte motors ,if they changed one and that did not work , and was it sea start who changed them.
 
Have you checked Your throttle assembly? Engines wont start if in gear, could be a sensor problem there perhaps? I’m no expert just offering another line of thought for you to look through. Could explain why both engines aren’t firing up at random intervals
 
Appreciate all your comments have now left it to the engineers. Starter motors were changed as we had had the coolers serviced/cleaned, on one side the oil cooler casing had corroded which had let salt water drip onto the starter, the other wasn’t fairing much better. So while the originals (2006) hadn’t failed they were probably not long left, with all the coolers off, meant new motors incurred no labour costs. Ironically we did it to save the risk of a failure mid season.
 
Meagain said:
Appreciate all your comments have now left it to the engineers. Starter motors were changed as we had had the coolers serviced/cleaned, on one side the oil cooler casing had corroded which had let salt water drip onto the starter, the other wasn’t fairing much better. So while the originals (2006) hadn’t failed they were probably not long left, with all the coolers off, meant new motors incurred no labour costs. Ironically we did it to save the risk of a failure mid season.
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No labour cost , who told you that , they have to come off to remove the cooler as the starter obscures the bolts that hold the oil cooler to the block .
There must be an EVC issue causing both engines not to start , it’s normally the HCU that’s failed .
 
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