Advise for would be movers from Motor to Sail?

[oceanfroggie]

Hi Guys'n'Gals

Any tips or advice for suitable vessel type for a family considering moving from Motor to Sail? Due to health issues and physical strength limits almost push button controls and electric winches needed back in the cockpit for total sail management, furling main and head sail essential, no lazy bags. We've 20 years coastal cruising experience in various aft cabin Broom motor boats in the same general area we'd like to sail cruise. Typically we spend 2 weeks at a time on board, sometimes 3-4 weeks, sometimes one night, so comfortable internal living space is important as is a full beam walk around island aft cabin. Once you've had that you'll just never go back to anything else. We anchor out or use mooring bouys rather than marinas so no interest in forward V cabins due wavelet noise and chain noise at night forward, and lack of walk around double berths. We're both retired now so we can just want to jump in the car and drive to the boat when the weather presents itself. No airport hell, just a 2-3hr drive so no interest in Med.

Any tips or advice welcome especially from folks who have already made this transition from motor to sail cruising. We spend a lot of time living on the Broom, most sail boats we've looked at so far would not be suitable from a living comfort point of view.

I've probably missed a pile of things, but any tips from those who've ploughed this path before would be welcome.

Key criteria:
o - Coastal Cruising boat to be based in an Irish coastal harbour or marina in a popular cruising area with many destinations within a days sail.
o - Size? whatever gets us a full beam aft cabin be that 40ft or 50ft. Only need 4 berths, two 80% of the time as it will just be the two of us.
o - No interest whatsoever in racing nor long distance cruising, no interest in med either.
o - Furling main and head sail
o - All lines back to cockpit with electric winches
o - Full beam aft cabin
o - Bright Deck Saloon format with bigger windows rather than dark coffin cabins found in some monohull keel boats.
o - Generator and Inverter nice to have
o - Aft boarding plus davits or aft arch frame for tender storage underway.
o - Spray hood + Bimini with option for fold down sides.
o - Easy to handle with two crew and must be capable of being single handed

Thank you in advance

 

[Clancy Moped]

Amel?

 

[Solwaycruiser]

'no interest in forward V cabins due wavelet noise'

With many modern boats you will also get the wavelet slap in the aft cabin - just in case you didn't realise !

 

[Laminar Flow]

Well, one that would fit the bill would be an Island Packet motorsailer. It has an island bed in the bow, covered steering, easy stern access, all lines led aft, shallow draft for coastal cruising, above ground living and a layout designed to fit regular humanity.
Contact Rotax of this forum, he's got one.
Unlike motorboats with chined hulls, sailboat get the wave slap in the stern, at least the ones with shallow runs do.

 

[flaming]

You should look at the Moody Deck saloons. They tick every box except the island berth, which they do have but is in the bow. I sailed a 45 many moons ago, and honestly if I was looking with your spec it would be top of my list.
Moody Decksaloon 45 | The sun also shines below deck

I do think that your 2 requirements of Island berth in the stern, and aft boarding are pretty mutually exclusive in sailing boats, aft berths of that type tend to be centre cockpit boats which then don't really have aft boarding in the same way.

 

[michael_w]

Oyster 485 or one of the other Oysters about the same size. Not the 45 as there is no on deck stowage, a fault rectified in the 47.

 

[doug748]

The Wauquiez Pilot Saloon 47 would meet some/most of your requirements:




WAUQUIEZ PILOT SALOON 47 sailing yacht for sale | De Valk Yacht broker

That one is sold, there is one in La Rochelle but without the mainsail furling.

.

 

[rotrax]

Laminar Flow is correct, the Island Packet SP Cruiser might well fit the bill. The standard rig uses just one powered Lewmar 40 in the rear cockpit.

Hard to find one though.

Excellent build quality, so you wont be dissapointed in that area after a Broom.

The owners Stateroom - see what I did there - is in the bow with its island double bed. Wave slap is not a problem but chain noise can intrude.

All boats are a compromise after all.

The major feature for us as a cruising couple in our mid 70's is easy on/easy off from the integral swim platform.

Some of the other recomendations dont have that.

 

[Tranona]

As always, budget is important. At the modest end the Jeanneau DS range meets you requirements in terms of basics and can easily add extras such as davits, arch etc. Various sizes and generations from 41' in early 2000s up to 54'. Unusual in having an aft island berth plus a walk on transom. This 42 from 2007 gives a flavour of the basic layout
yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2008/jeanneau-sun-odyssey-42-ds-3884269/

Very popular over the years so often a choice available in the UK

 

[Kukri]

For an older heavier displacement type - the Victory 40?

There are some nice American heavy displacement boats with aft cabins.

Here’s one VAT paid in the UK:

Formosa 56 - Red Ensign

 

[Robin]

not new but Beneteau Oceanis 44CC has a large owners cabin with island berth, roller headsail and in mast reefing mainsail. good sailer and decent motor, was on my shop list but missed the only decent one for sale at the time 4 years ago

some here

 

[dunedin]

'no interest in forward V cabins due wavelet noise'

From reading a thread on the mobo forum, wave noise in a front cabin seems to be a big thing with many mobo’s due to the hull shape. Much less so than on a typical sailing boat - where as noted stern slap is often a bigger issue when in harbour.
OP also mentions chain noise, but a snubber should sort that

(Spent 50 nights on anchor this year, sleeping in bow cabin - wave noise not an issue)

 

[Greenheart]

It's interesting - and rather unusual - that despite your Broom being a biggish motor-boat, it doesn't have an indoor helm.

Last month LongJohnSilver (trawler yacht owner) asked the same question, tentatively looking at sailing boats. I think once he realised he'd have to spend all watches outdoors in order to steer a sailing yacht, he decided he's better off now, with a wheelhouse.

Are you aware that the sprayhood on most sailing yachts, protects the hatchway, not the person steering, as your own does?

There are excellent exceptions like Rotrax's and Laminar's motor-sailers, but few here will admit that they're the answer. ?

My advice would be to steer your Broom through a few good heavy rainstorms, without your sprayhood up, before considering any open-cockpit sailing yacht. The reality of summer sailing in our latitudes may be less appealing than you're keen to believe.

 

[dunedin]

It's interesting - and rather unusual - that despite your Broom being a biggish motor-boat, it doesn't have an indoor helm.

Last month LongJohnSilver (trawler yacht owner) asked the same question, tentatively looking at sailing boats. I think once he realised he'd have to spend all watches outdoors in order to steer a sailing yacht, he decided he's better off now, with a wheelhouse.

Are you aware that the sprayhood on most sailing yachts, protects the hatchway, not the person steering, as your own does?

There are excellent exceptions like Rotrax's and Laminar's motor-sailers, but few here will admit that they're the answer. ?

Dan, you keep posting this view but not sure how much experience you actually have of 40-50 foot sailing yachts, that are what the OP is considering? Or even modern 35+ foot sailing boats.

I sail all year round (except Covid lock downs!), usually in Scotland or the Baltic. Definitely don’t want a wheelhouse, as spoil the sailing experience and unnecessary IMHO.
Like most sailing cruisers, we hand steer for fun, in “champagne sailing“ weather (surprisingly common in sunny Scottish islands) and when docking. If the sailing is boring or the weather wet then the autohelm steers. If short handed, skipper navigates and trims sails - again autopilot steers.
Spray hood covers front of cockpit, so stay dry except with strong following wind. Very rarely wear oilskins.

 

[Greenheart]

"Champagne sailing" That sounds like a wonderful euphemism for weather like tonight in the Solent.

I think it's great that you sail all year round - you can only be doing it because you like it. I've spent very limited time on yachts over 42ft, but all my time on pure sailing yachts has taught me I don't want one - and that I don't envy their owners anymore.

I have the dinghy, and I get all the weather I want, in that. When I get another cabin boat, it'll have the option to steer from indoors.

The motor-boater who isn't sure, must beware...or at least, be aware, it is unlikely to be what he's used to.

The pleasing counterpoint is the motor-sailer, which retains its appeal for pure weatherproof versatility.

 

[rotrax]

When we purchased our Island Packet SP Cruiser it was in Gloucester Docks. A fair trip to Gosport down the Bristol Channel, around Lands End and East along the Channel. A fellow club member, regular crew for several commercial delivery outfits, agreed to assist with the trip.

He was scathing about our choice. He called it a fat tub with a small rig.

At 2.30 AM rounding Lands End in the pissing rain wearing tee shirt and shorts he decided he quite liked it........................

 

[doug748]

Dan, you keep posting this view but not sure how much experience you actually have of 40-50 foot sailing yachts, that are what the OP is considering? Or even modern 35+ foot sailing boats.

I sail all year round (except Covid lock downs!), usually in Scotland or the Baltic. Definitely don’t want a wheelhouse, as spoil the sailing experience and unnecessary IMHO.
Like most sailing cruisers, we hand steer for fun, in “champagne sailing“ weather (surprisingly common in sunny Scottish islands) and when docking. If the sailing is boring or the weather wet then the autohelm steers. If short handed, skipper navigates and trims sails - again autopilot steers.
Spray hood covers front of cockpit, so stay dry except with strong following wind. Very rarely wear oilskins.

Yes, a good deal of dilettante theorising going on here.

I think most of us could put up with the aft, open cockpit boats mentioned, without undue distress. ?

.

 

[Greenheart]

Maybe, if they were happily accustomed to that arrangement already.

But if their previous boat prioritised comfort, they'll be miffed to find they have to steer outside, however foul the weather.

It's only fair to warn Oceanfroggie, since he asked. Almost everything about his question shows a requirement for ease and comfort, largely equivalent to a motorboat...and why not? But if I owned a motorboat and I asked a man with a sailing boat if I should get one too, he'd say yes, because he believed it (or because he was trying to get rid of his)...or he might ask if I've got a warm coat... ?

...the point is, it's a hell of a different ownership experience.
.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Dan, you keep posting this view but not sure how much experience you actually have of 40-50 foot sailing yachts, that are what the OP is considering? Or even modern 35+ foot sailing boats.

I sail all year round (except Covid lock downs!), usually in Scotland or the Baltic. Definitely don’t want a wheelhouse, as spoil the sailing experience and unnecessary IMHO.
Like most sailing cruisers, we hand steer for fun, in “champagne sailing“ weather (surprisingly common in sunny Scottish islands) and when docking. If the sailing is boring or the weather wet then the autohelm steers. If short handed, skipper navigates and trims sails - again autopilot steers.
Spray hood covers front of cockpit, so stay dry except with strong following wind. Very rarely wear oilskins.

Each to their own of course, heroics included, if must.

Having owned a 50' o.D, 65o.a., and having sailed her half way around the world, I do believe I might have some idea what 50' boats are about, including winter and off-season sailing in a part of the world that can give Scotland a run for it's money for lousy weather. I have also sailed some in the Baltic, in gale force conditions and even when there was ice in the harbours.

Having sailed thousands and and thousands of miles in open cockpits, with soft and hard dodgers or decksalons with inside steering, I can state with some authority that there is absolutely no comparison to a full wheelhouse, none.

We do not just rarely wear oilskins, other than on shore leave, we never do. Additionally, when underway in inclement weather, my crew can sit in the wheelhouse, look out and be active participants in the conning of the ship rather than being pent up down below in the cave and at a greater risk of sea sickness.

we hand steer for fun, in “champagne sailing“ weather (surprisingly common in sunny Scottish islands) and when docking.

We too steer for fun, but we do it from inside when the weather is less than "champagne". As to steering while docking... You don't say? How does one not? May Providence steer me clear of any who don't!

 

[dom]

Hi Guys'n'Gals

Any tips or advice for suitable vessel type for a family considering moving from Motor to Sail? Due to health issues and physical strength limits almost push button controls and electric winches needed back in the cockpit for total sail management, furling main and head sail essential, no lazy bags. We've 20 years coastal cruising experience in various aft cabin Broom motor boats in the same general area we'd like to sail cruise. Typically we spend 2 weeks at a time on board, sometimes 3-4 weeks, sometimes one night, so comfortable internal living space is important as is a full beam walk around island aft cabin. Once you've had that you'll just never go back to anything else. We anchor out or use mooring bouys rather than marinas so no interest in forward V cabins due wavelet noise and chain noise at night forward, and lack of walk around double berths. We're both retired now so we can just want to jump in the car and drive to the boat when the weather presents itself. No airport hell, just a 2-3hr drive so no interest in Med.

Any tips or advice welcome especially from folks who have already made this transition from motor to sail cruising. We spend a lot of time living on the Broom, most sail boats we've looked at so far would not be suitable from a living comfort point of view.

I've probably missed a pile of things, but any tips from those who've ploughed this path before would be welcome.

Key criteria:
o - Coastal Cruising boat to be based in an Irish coastal harbour or marina in a popular cruising area with many destinations within a days sail.
o - Size? whatever gets us a full beam aft cabin be that 40ft or 50ft. Only need 4 berths, two 80% of the time as it will just be the two of us.
o - No interest whatsoever in racing nor long distance cruising, no interest in med either.
o - Furling main and head sail
o - All lines back to cockpit with electric winches
o - Full beam aft cabin
o - Bright Deck Saloon format with bigger windows rather than dark coffin cabins found in some monohull keel boats.
o - Generator and Inverter nice to have
o - Aft boarding plus davits or aft arch frame for tender storage underway.
o - Spray hood + Bimini with option for fold down sides.
o - Easy to handle with two crew and must be capable of being single handed

Thank you in advance

I too have been looking for a heavyish, slowish yacht that is nice to live and work on (for periods), while compact enough for two to sail but still able to carry some gear.

Here is my runway favourite after a relatively modest amount of research -- to the point of toying with an order
I have a sneaky feeling it will fulfill all of your needs as there are lots of options (inc "push button" if you want it), and while not fast per se, these boats do sail very nicely indeed.
Just possibly best of both worlds?
55CS | Contest Yachts

There's also a new 50 without the stern garage coming out which would also be worth a look.
50CS | Contest Yachts

Just my tuppence