Advice wanted for Blue Water cruiser choice

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whiteheat

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I am looking to buy a boat to sail to the Med in 2013 and probably do the ARC in November 2014.

I want a 38 to 42ft boat that is rewarding to sail. I like the idea of a cutter rig and prefer medium displacement, with a reasonable comfort ratio. Iwould prefer two cabins and two heads. I would like the rudder to be protected by a skeg. My budget is up to a maximum of £150,000, but that would be for the perfect boat, with very little additional expenditure required.

If I had more money, my ideal yacht would probably be a Rustler 42 or 44, so I have been thinking about a Bowman 40 or a Starlight 39. Geoff Pack’s 1988 review of the Bowman 40 suggested that it had bad weather helm in a blow. Comments on YBW suggest that the Sheel keel causes bad leeway in heavy conditions and state that it has inadequate storage. Apart from that, it looks good on paper, if perhaps slightly undercanvased. There seems to be a wide variance in prices, for which I can see little justification.

The Starlight 39 had a rave review in Yachting Monthly and is much more affordable. My main concerns about this boat are that it only carries 50 gallons of water, which is half the capacity of the Bowman. Also, I am not sure if it would take wind vane steering, which I would certainly prefer.

I would appreciate advice.
 
All these yachts would make fine blue-water cruisers, certainly for a couple.

50 galls of water is not enough for ocean cruising, well maybe for one person. Probably best to install a watermaker and regard the 50 gall tank as emergency backup. You should have at least two sources of fresh water aboard in case one becomes contaminated.

A wind vane really is a must for passagemaking unless there are 4+ competent helmsmen aboard. An electric autopilot will put a strain on your power supply and will not work as well downwind in a fresh or strong breeze.

P.S. Yacht designer Ted Brewer's "Comfort Factor" is a useful criterion for the comfort of a blue water cruiser at sea. It is: disp/(.65*(.7*lwl+.3*loa)*beam^1.33), in lbs and feet. Large numbers indicate a smoother, more comfortable motion in a sea way. This equation favors heavy boats with overhang and narrow beam. These are features that slow down a boat's response in violent conditions, which is a major factor in reducing crew fatigue. Brewer regarded scores of 30-40 as being appropriate.
 
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When we were looking around boats it came down to the one we have and a contest. In the end I would have been happy with both so the best deal won.
We looked around a few contests and they are a very well made boat and good at sea.
The link above is well worth looking at.
 
The water capacity is a bit of a red herring as you have to accont for the possibility of contaminated or leaking water tanks, so you need to carry sufficient water in alternative containers (we used 2.5 litr plastic carriers)

The motion issue is also interesting, over hangs and less volume in bow and stern certainly slow the motion but increase the possibility of getting a cockpit filled or having the boat deck under water. In one boat I know of, the washboards were smashed and the fore hatch blown out with following breaking seas off the Needles! On my last rough trip (10m breaking confused seas 50knts wind) we had a relatively comfortable and safe passage with a higher volume lighter boat, given the choice in the same seas again I'd be choosing lighter over heavy, more benjenbav than rival. I've sailed Rival 38's Sweden 38, 3/4 tonners, Roberts 40, open 30, Warrior, Crusader, Twister, Halmatic, fast 40, open 60 and a number of benjenbav's in a wide range of conditions.

I have to give an alternative view on electric auto helms to Andrew, on three transats now I've used electric auto helms (with spare parts) one passage fully crewed but also two handed. One was a good January downwind sail W to E, proper trades big swell. The auto helm 6000 was more than capable, it made light work of steering pretty much the whole way. We still had too much electric and we were running fridge, lights, laptop etc the whole way. Our only source of electric was a towed generator, we never needed to use the engine. Wind vanes are good and If I had the choice I'd have wind and electric, but they are also subject to damage from following breaking seas.

Whatever boat you end up with I hope you have a good trip.
 
Bowman 40

We noted this one. It does look nice, but compared with others we have seen it is overpriced. Having been aboard a Bowman 40, we were somewhat concerned about the limited amount of storage and the very small size of the aft cabin. The Halberg Rassy 36 seems to have much more storage and a more comfortable aft cabin. Not sure if she sails as well though.
Also, having thought that two heads were better than one ('scuse pun!) I'm beginning to think that on a relatively small boat, they may be a waste of space. I would appreciate other views on this.
Having said that, Bowman 40s are lovely boats!

Very many thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread. Very encouraging!
 
jordanbasset said:
Re the two heads question, if there are just two of you think the second one is not worth the space it takes up. We have not had a problem with just one.
Click to expand...

Oh trust me. It is when the first one blocks and you are miles from anywhere with newly arrived mother on board for a week long visit !
 
The two heads issue, in my opinion, depends on who you sail with.

One person. No problem.
A couple, no problem,
Two blokes. Starts to be a problem.
Any kids. Definitely a problem.

We have two and much prefer it.
I/we have the aft cabin and aft heads.
Visitors use the forward heads.

Effectively two en-suites as the estate agents say. Better for all involved.
 
Ocean cruising choice

We have now done 98,000 miles and visited 45 countries and apart from serious storms (one hurricane at sea NW of Bermuda) it has been an idyllic way of life.
I wouls strongly recommend a long keel steel one-off with mast(s) in tabernacles and over strength sails.
It is important to be self-sufficient, and the ability to lower your mast yourself saves much hassle and expense. The ability to haul out up a beach is valuable.
Check
Good working galley,
ventilation,
Over 200 gallons FW in two tanks.
short overhangs.
small cockpit.
radar
500 ah battery pack, preferably NiFe
Simple, slow running small diesel
Lastly,STEELl because you will probably end up mixing it with fishing boats, commercial boats, etc, and in harbours where the facilities are far from ideal.
Apart from two main anchors (say 30kg for a 40 footer, have a dismountable 50kg for a life insurance policy
The boat must be a load carrier. Pansy little potties wont do.
We went to the assistance of a Bowman 46 in a force 10 north of the Azores. Her deck-house had been stove in and she had lost her miizzen.. Modern plastic boats do get on, but you must allow for an extreme experience.
 
Sound advise. If you are looking for more info then there are plenty of books covering
how to 'Sell up and Sail'

BTW........there is no Perfect Boat.
 
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Sandyman said:
Sound advise. If you are looking for more info then there are plenty of books covering
how to 'Sell up and Sail'

BTW........there is no Perfect Boat.
Click to expand...

For example : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sell-Up-Sail-Pursue-Dream/dp/0713674032

And I think it was written by Binch himself.........

All excellent advice posted above.

And agreed re there is no 'perfect boat' - Arthur Beiser wrote two volumes of 'The Proper Yacht' and pretty much came to that conclusion.....
They are both excellent books, never mind that they were written long before AWBs became popular for pond hopping.
Here is one for sale for the princely sum of GBP 2.80....... http://www.amazon.co.uk/proper-yach...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327198753&sr=1-1
 
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I also agree with Neil Y that electrical autohelms are better- they're more responsive, work on a wider range of points of sail, more reliable, cheaper, and require less maintenance. I have two on my boat - one with hydraulic actuator on the quadrant which is used by defualt, and an ST6000 belt drive on the helm. Both have separate control heads.

I also concur that towed generators are excellent on ocean trips.

On heads, I would go for a single large head that you can actually turn around in rather than two tiny cupboards.

Finally, two things rule out a lot of AWB boats for me on long trips - lack of a decent sea berth, and lack of good exterior vision from the interior.

AWBs are made for the charter market, which requires huge cabins with large double beds, which are comfortable in marinas and at a calm Med anchorage. They're hopeless at sea. I look for a dedicated sea-berth, ideally just behind the chart table.

Whilst down below, I want to be able to see what the sails are doing, and ideally be able to see forwards.
 
We have just bought our soon to be perfect boat for Med then next year RTW. An invaluable book to read is 'The Voyager's Handbook' by Beth A Leonard. Really well written and set out. Helps you to decide your priorities and therefore which is the right boat FOR YOU. If you like graphs it's for you if you don't like graphs it's also for you.
Rics advice about berths is good but 80% of time is spent at anchor so for me a big comfortable bed is a must, as is a sea berth..
 
Have you considered a Hallberg Rassy 42F?

Can be cutter rigged
Big comfortable bed in aft cabin
Lee cloths in saloon and aft cabin
2 heads both with showers
800 lits fresh water in 2 S/S tanks
500 lits diesel in S/S tank
62 HP Engine in a proper engine room with space for a geni
Amble space for over 500amps battery locker
An HROA members club which can give you all the help and advice from members who have probably done exactly what you are planning to do.
 
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