Advice please on dock lines and knots

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sprocker

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We prefer permanent dock lines, but our marina (MDL) don't allow any type of metallic shackle or chain to be attached to the dock cleat legs.

Last year our lines were attached to dock cleat with cleat hitches, but with two lines on each cleat it all looked very full.

My thought for this year is to pass the dock line through a length of water pipe (The thick blue stuff), heat and bend this into a 'U' shape, pass this around the leg of the dock cleat, and tie it off with a knot of some type.
The plastic pipe providing a wear barrier to the line.

Does this sound a reasonable solution? Which knot would you recommend that will give me a secure but non-permanent solution (I want to prove that it will work well before I move to fixing the length and splicing.
 
When we were in Torquay our neighbours bought some white pipe, like you suggest, from the chandlers near the Harvesters. The pipe was in the loop of a bowline and was left attached to the cleats. I recall they were quite popular down C pontoon..
 
Thankyou Andy, that's what I had in mind. I guess it must be a workable solution if others use it.
My first thought was a Bowline, but wondered if there were other/better knots to use.
 
sprocker said:
We prefer permanent dock lines, but our marina (MDL) don't allow any type of metallic shackle or chain to be attached to the dock cleat legs.

Last year our lines were attached to dock cleat with cleat hitches, but with two lines on each cleat it all looked very full.

My thought for this year is to pass the dock line through a length of water pipe (The thick blue stuff), heat and bend this into a 'U' shape, pass this around the leg of the dock cleat, and tie it off with a knot of some type.
The plastic pipe providing a wear barrier to the line.

Does this sound a reasonable solution? Which knot would you recommend that will give me a secure but non-permanent solution (I want to prove that it will work well before I move to fixing the length and splicing.
Click to expand...

Big soft shackle in cover [ oversize dyneema] - then make off lines to the shackle with a bowline or eyes spliced on the ends.
 
I was looking into this as well.
Just taken the boat from Portishead to Torquay.

Very different with a marina that's not locked. The boat moves around considerably more, so we have to allow much more slack to allow for the movements.

I am also considering using some pipe, but does it make that much difference?
 
Very simple. Just make a soft eye in the end loop it through the base of the cleat and pass the line through it. Simple and idiot proof. That is the preferred method in our club marina.
 
I have hard eyes and big shackles, but if I wasn't allowed them then I think I'd go for an approach that minimised the movement of rope against cleat. So not a big loose bowline, but something like a round turn and two half hitches around one leg of the cleat, snugged up tight.

Not that the other ideas here are bad, though.

Pete
 
With permanent lines I would go for an eye splice rather than a knot. It preserves much more strength in the line. If you can't use a hard thimble and shackle I do like the idea of hose with line through it.
 
So mdl won't let you use perfectly normal ways of attaching lines to the dock ?

How do you attach Spring compensators ?

We ( and probably 80% of boats in most med marinas ) use Chains and springs round the cleat. It does nil harm so what can their possible objection be ?
 
I think that hard eyes and shackles are overkill on a mooring cleat in most marina conditions and I can understand why a marina may not be keen on them (e.g. noisy when it gets a bit lumpy).

We used a round turn and two half hitches on one 'leg' of a cleat for a number of years in an exposed marina and the worst we got was a slight flattening of the rope on the 'turns'. Chafing was more of an issue where the line came into contact with something else such as the deck edge/rubbing strake on the boat. The answer to this was soft nylon (or similar) sleeves around the rope.

I would be wary about any kind of plastic pipe because the ends have the potential to be a chafing point. Soft sleeves are much better IMHO. If there is real concern about chafing at the cleat than a soft sleeve in the bight of a bowline knot should be fine (an eye splice would be neater but in reality a knot is just as good on a mooring line).
 
I just put a bowline in the end of each line and pass through the cleat-certainly room for two lines. I don't get alot of movement and so little chaffing, but it is only a bit of rope so if I have to buy some more after some years, it is not going to be a major expense of the boating year !
 
Thankyou for all your replies gents, I seem to remember one of the dockies in Torquay telling me the reason for not allowing metallic shackles was down to galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals, I am not clever enough to argue the case, and life is too short anyway, so I'll go with a simple bowline with plastic pipe this year. We live locally anyway, so check the boat at least twice a week during the winter, and always the day after a big blow.

I may even leave plastic pipe off one of the lines and see just how much chaffing I do get, as GJGM says it's only a bit of rope and relatively cheap to replace.
 
Firstly go for a heavy enough rope, I use three strand polyester some give but it does not stretch like nylon. 3s polyester has good wear characteristics. Avoid braid on braid and pre made dock lines which once the outer braid is worn the inner soft braid is damaged very easily and fails.

I tie the line to a cleat with a bowline but I go twice around one of the verticals of the cleat first to reduce the wear.

I have a fairly exposed hammerhead and I use eyes o going one way to the boat and tails the other so I can tighten it up.

I only use hose over the line where it passes over my rubber D fendering.


A round turn and two half hitches will go very tight if put under load.
 
If you follow my method, chafe at the cleat is not an issue as there is no movement unlike using a loop with a bowline. If the cleats are the normal Walcon type with 2 legs you can get 2 big warps on each cleat, one on each leg and still have the horns for extra lines if necessary. Well worth the effort to make up permanent lines with soft eyes at the other end the exact length to reach the cleats on the boat.
 
MapisM said:
Why, couldn't a bowline be used exactly in the same way you're suggesting for the soft eye?
Click to expand...

No. The soft eye is locked tight by passing it through the base of the cleat and then passing the rest of the line through and then pulling tight. with a bowline the loop can move unless you put at least 2 turns round the cleat base - and then no benefit in using a bowline, might as well finish with 2 half hitches. The thing with lines on your home berth is that there is no need to make them easily removable. Like the OP our club discourages the use of shackles because of wear on the cleats and the method I suggest is the one many of us use instead.
 
Bandit said:
A round turn and two half hitches will go very tight if put under load.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's the idea. These are for permanent home berth lines; if you have to cut them off the cleat a few years down the road when it's time to replace the line anyway, so what?

I considered suggesting a buntline hitch rather than the two half-hitches, that almost certainly would need cutting after years of heavy use.

Pete
 
I have soft eyes on my lines, passed through the middle of the cleat then split over each horn. Plenty of room for 3 lines at the bow and 3 at the stern.
 
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