Advice needed about a first boat

[blxm]

Hi All
Hope this is the right place for this post. I have returned to sailing after nearly 20 years (gained yachtmater offshore 1996 so not a complete novice). I have been sailing with friends on a Halberg Rassy 312 in the UK and bareboat in the med (Bavaria 32) this year. I have now decided its time to take the plunge and look at my own boat in the next year or two, no rush. But would love some advice to help cut down the bewildering options!
I have two schools of thought.
1. An older boat such as a Moody 31, plenty of choice and my dream boat back in the day! Id be prepared to spend some time money restoring. I have variable reports on the S31 so comments welcome. I have been restoring and racing old cars for many years so engineering and restoring dont worry me.
2. A newer boat with less work/maintenance short term. After looking around I am quite taken with the Hanse 312/315etc range but open to suggestions/options.

I don't want or need a blue water boat as the sailing will be limited to coastal and channel crossings. 30-32 foot range would seem to be workable for a couple with friends aboard at the weekends. The budget is about 60K for the boat and I have put aside funds for commissioning and mooring fees.
(SWMBO would prefer wheel to tiller)

Would love to have some opinions on the way forward.
Thanks in advance

 

[Fourbees]

Hello - I'm surprised you didn't get any response, since forumites are never short of opinions! As you identified, the sort of boat you need depends on what you want to do. For the last 9 years I have been cruising on a Feeling 32 (lift keel version) and she's been excellent. Based in the Solent, we've covered the whole coast from Dover to Falmouth, plus the Channel Islands, France as far as Treguier, Belgium and Holland. The lift keel has given us confidence to tackle the Somme to St Valery and the Dart to Totnes and we've dried out in places where fixed keelers fear to tread... With keel up we draw only 0.6 m which can be very handy. It just so happens out boat is up for sale - within your budget - she's called Red Kite and you'll find her with WhyBoat (www.whyboat.com). Worth a look, anyway.

 

[Tam Lin]

Do you want to restore an old boat or do you want to go sailing? That is the question?

 

[jordanbasset]

The Moody 31 is a good boat, have chartered one previously and was impressed with it. But if it was my money I would buy a newer boat. My prejudice is shining through as I would go with a Bavaria, should be able to get a nice example, 5 years old or so for well within your budget. Failing that I would go with Beneteau or Jeaneau.

 

[Marley's_Slave]

Hello - I'm surprised you didn't get any response, since forumites are never short of opinions! As you identified, the sort of boat you need depends on what you want to do. For the last 9 years I have been cruising on a Feeling 32 (lift keel version) and she's been excellent. Based in the Solent, we've covered the whole coast from Dover to Falmouth, plus the Channel Islands, France as far as Treguier, Belgium and Holland. The lift keel has given us confidence to tackle the Somme to St Valery and the Dart to Totnes and we've dried out in places where fixed keelers fear to tread... With keel up we draw only 0.6 m which can be very handy. It just so happens out boat is up for sale - within your budget - she's called Red Kite and you'll find her with WhyBoat (www.whyboat.com). Worth a look, anyway.

This change might help your cause: www.whyboats.com

 

[Tranona]

Agree with jordanbasset. You could get a really good spec late model Bavaria/Beneteau/Jeanneau well within that budget. Very few of the smaller Hanses were sold in the UK so not the choice available compared with more popular boats. Also worth looking at Elan 33 which is a bit more sporty. Beware of buying your past dream - reality is very different.

 

[Storyline]

That is a generous budget but a bit in the middle, not enough to get something gorgeous in good condition but too much for an older classic.

So what I would do is to get an older classic and spend the balance on a full refurbishment. Not a good investment but you will get a gorgeous boat.

 

[doug748]

I have some sympathy with Storyline but if you go down this route you, sort of, need to be sure you will keep the boat long term.

If you get a Bavaria you could buy and sell and still perhaps have the shirt on your back. I like the Bavaria 32 for what it does, if you are happy with this style of boat - there you go.
I don't see why a practical person could not put a Moody 31 into good sailing trim for half your budget. It would then be little more trouble than a boat right out of the makers shed. I have no time for the idea that new boats somehow demand no maintenance.

Did you not get on with the Rassy? - one of these would be well within your compass.

Sorry the post is not very helpful, I suspect none will be particularly, it's grand problem to ponder though.

 

[Tranona]

If you fancy an HR, there is a 31 in Poole www.harbouryachts.com at top end of your budget. Looks OK, and is one of the rare ones that does not have the teak deck, which is always a worry on a near 20 year old boat.

 

[siwhi]

I’d look at a S31 with your budget.

I sailed a Hanse 355 for 2 years (not mine) and then bought a Moody 31 Mk1 which cost about half the price of most of the Hanse 315’s for sale (and also half your budget), so you can expect big differences. The Moody S31 would be much better comparison for the Hanse, but in case you are interested, here’s a couple of observations on the difference between a newer Hanse and an older Moody 31, most of which are pretty obvious.

The Hanse was as you’d expect quite a bit quicker, especially to windward (that’s not just a factor of size or sails). Easier too, especially with children, as it has a German main and self-tacking jib. The Moody’s traveller is across the companionway, not something I like but we can deal with it fine. Plus the huge genoa and babystay mean tacking can be a hassle in low wind speeds. Both boats are fine when the wind gets up, but there’s a more comfortable motion, I feel, from the Moody. Overall the Hanse is quicker and easier to sail, more engaging, and many of the 315’s seem to have a bowsprit which I also like.

Inside there is no comparison, the Moody is lovely, homely, solid and somewhere we can relax in. The Hanse was fine in an Ikea kind of way. It is bright, modern and clean but not as comfortable by day 2 of the cruise, less storage, less practical features, etc.

I’m very happy with our decision to get an older Moody, we have small children and use the boat for weekends and holidays, and she’s pretty much perfect for what we need – 20-30 mile hops to anchorages on the West Coast of Scotland where we are. Small enough to single hand and big enough to feel very secure when it’s lively. Longer trips are fine too without getting knackered. Conversely, if I was channel hopping down south to marinas with just adults I’d get something faster and more Spartan.

Maintenance wise I think in terms of age or time to replacement of a part or system (and associated time, cost), and then in terms of Plastimo, Jabsco, Vetus, Selden, Raymarine, Beta, etc, and their competitors, not Hanse or Moody or any other build. A good survey will guide you. The maintenance time and total cost of ownership of the older boat has been better than expected (so far), mainly because the previous owner had an eye for quality.

 

[Fourbees]

Agree with jordanbasset. You could get a really good spec late model Bavaria/Beneteau/Jeanneau well within that budget. Very few of the smaller Hanses were sold in the UK so not the choice available compared with more popular boats. Also worth looking at Elan 33 which is a bit more sporty. Beware of buying your past dream - reality is very different.

This is true, but a Feeling is much classier than any Bav/Ben/Jeanneau or indeed small Hanse. Just consider the woodwork, for example - Feeling furnishings are made by proper craftsmen, not slapped together in a factory and installed flat-pack style. Plus you get a lifting keel, with proper cast-iron ballast plate for taking the ground with confidence... Also mine comes with lots of extra kit, including large holding tank, liferaft, tender... She's a bargain!

 

[Concerto]

At the end of last year I was in a similar position of returning to sailing after a 21 year break. I tried to assess what I wanted from a 31 - 35 ft boat that I would mainly sail singlehanded. The deciding factors were sailing ability and ease of handling. After chatting with lots of people I finally settled on a Westerly Fulmar. Other boats in the general choice included Parker 32, Contessa 32 and Scanmar 33, but a Moody 31 was included even though it did not sail as well (my opinion). I was not interested in more modern boats as I felt they tend to sit on the water rather than in the water and the wide transom is more for accommodation requirements than for sailing agility.

When looking I did miss out on the very last Fulmar built, also another beautifully maintained example, but bought an early one that was very sound with a recent new engine, a replacement rig, but otherwise in need of some tlc. Most of the work is labour intensive and I am planning to complete it over 3 years (my expectation) and spend about £12,000 to £15,000 doing it. But when it is finished it will be almost like a new boat, but with the strength and sensible design of a classic. There is a link in my details to photographs of how she looked when I bought her and of the work done so far to her external appearance.

Things I would certainly make sure you consider include:
The Fulmar is ¾ rigged making the headsails smaller to handle - but I have also fitted oversize winches.
Your wife would prefer a wheel, but tiller steering is very easy has has less to go wrong - there is a Fulmar that had a wheel fitted.
Most modern boats do not have any protection from a rub rail like the Halberg Rassey or Fulmar - this I can say is a very worthwhile feature to look for.
Try and avoid having a shower in this size boat as the space required and volume of water needed are not totally practicable, besides cleaning and drying the shower compartment is a pain.
Make sure you have warm air heating to extend the sailing season.
Try and find a boat from someone giving up sailing as it will come with lots of items that would be costly to buy, e.g. inflateable dinghy, crockery & cutlery, liferaft, extra warps, safety equipment, etc.

My brother used to own a Hanse 31 and changed it for an older Contest 35. He got on with the Hanse quite well but decided it was just a little on the small size for him and his wife as they approached retirement. He has also done a lot of renovation work.

Both of us plan to keep our boats for at least 10 years, so we can justify all the costs of major improvements are for our own benefit. So when we come to sell in the future they will stand out as prime examples of very well maintained boats.

Since owning my boat a few of my ideas of things to be done have changed. I have fitted a chart plotter and planned to change the instruments and auto pilot, but the existing ones work fine so will not change them as in 10 years time the "new" instruments would be considered old. As I am not changing the instrumentation, I shall probably fit new opening windows like modern boats. The existing Treadmaster in the cockpit is at the end of its life and I planned to replace with solid teak, but will now use a synthetic teak decking as it will save about £1000 and probably look just as good but be easier to keep clean.

Some of the work already completed includes: Stripped all the antifouling off and Gel Shielded the hull. Treated the surface rust on the keel. Fitted a new stern gland and folding propeller. Compounded the oxidised topside gel coat. Removed the red trim and repainted it Oxford Blue. Fitted a new sprayhood and Pack-a-Main. Currently a new Eberspacher is being fitted.

Other work that I plan to complete is: All of the interior woodwork is going to be relacquered as the interior will look better. Most of the headlinings have already been changed, leaving just the forward cabin to be replaced. The bunk cushions, interior lights and cooker are definitely being changed this winter. The non slip deck paint is chipped and flaking in places, so it will be completely removed and painted from the gel coat. All the gel coat on deck will be compounded to restore the original colour. All the woodwork on deck will be taken back to bare wood and properly varnished.

My advice is look at the older boats and then spend some money getting it exactly as you want it. If you want any further advice then you can private message me.

 

[blxm]

Thanks Marley's_Slave, I'll have a look.

 

[blxm]

Tranona and jordanbasset, thanks for the comments. Well worth considering. Although Bavaria/Beneteau/Jeanneau range is quite broad. Will need to be a bit of research. Not sure on these as I was not that impressed with the quality of the Bavaria althouth th budget constraint will play a factor. The hanse I viewed seemed to be a little better screwed together, or might have been unlucky with the Bav.
Have not seen the Elan 33 so will research a little.

 

[blxm]

I have some sympathy with Storyline but if you go down this route you, sort of, need to be sure you will keep the boat long term.

If you get a Bavaria you could buy and sell and still perhaps have the shirt on your back. I like the Bavaria 32 for what it does, if you are happy with this style of boat - there you go.
I don't see why a practical person could not put a Moody 31 into good sailing trim for half your budget. It would then be little more trouble than a boat right out of the makers shed. I have no time for the idea that new boats somehow demand no maintenance.

Did you not get on with the Rassy? - one of these would be well within your compass.

Sorry the post is not very helpful, I suspect none will be particularly, it's grand problem to ponder though.

This is the dilemma! But thanks for replying. The Rassy is a lovely boat but at the price point I can afford I would be looking at quite an old boat (the one I have sailed is 25 years old) and even though it is well cared for it is starting to look tired. As a sea boat I cant fault it but the long keel makes tight mooring exciting and for two couples it is a little tight on space.

 

[blxm]

I’d look at a S31 with your budget.

I sailed a Hanse 355 for 2 years (not mine) and then bought a Moody 31 Mk1 which cost about half the price of most of the Hanse 315’s for sale (and also half your budget), so you can expect big differences. The Moody S31 would be much better comparison for the Hanse, but in case you are interested, here’s a couple of observations on the difference between a newer Hanse and an older Moody 31, most of which are pretty obvious.

The Hanse was as you’d expect quite a bit quicker, especially to windward (that’s not just a factor of size or sails). Easier too, especially with children, as it has a German main and self-tacking jib. The Moody’s traveller is across the companionway, not something I like but we can deal with it fine. Plus the huge genoa and babystay mean tacking can be a hassle in low wind speeds. Both boats are fine when the wind gets up, but there’s a more comfortable motion, I feel, from the Moody. Overall the Hanse is quicker and easier to sail, more engaging, and many of the 315’s seem to have a bowsprit which I also like.

Inside there is no comparison, the Moody is lovely, homely, solid and somewhere we can relax in. The Hanse was fine in an Ikea kind of way. It is bright, modern and clean but not as comfortable by day 2 of the cruise, less storage, less practical features, etc.

I’m very happy with our decision to get an older Moody, we have small children and use the boat for weekends and holidays, and she’s pretty much perfect for what we need – 20-30 mile hops to anchorages on the West Coast of Scotland where we are. Small enough to single hand and big enough to feel very secure when it’s lively. Longer trips are fine too without getting knackered. Conversely, if I was channel hopping down south to marinas with just adults I’d get something faster and more Spartan.

Maintenance wise I think in terms of age or time to replacement of a part or system (and associated time, cost), and then in terms of Plastimo, Jabsco, Vetus, Selden, Raymarine, Beta, etc, and their competitors, not Hanse or Moody or any other build. A good survey will guide you. The maintenance time and total cost of ownership of the older boat has been better than expected (so far), mainly because the previous owner had an eye for quality.

Interesting thanks. The old adage of 'buy quality' applies to boats as well as cars!