Advice for newbie

[tinstaafl]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and totally new to the boating world!

I have a few questions that I'd like to ask, some of which will sound really stupid, I'm sure. I'd be very grateful for some responses...

We're thinking of buying a small (18-20 foot) cuddy sportsboat to trail rather than moor. I'm not new to forums in general so I've spent ages searching this site and came to the conclusion that we ought to buy a vehicle for towing such a boat. We have a new V6 mondeo and whilst I'm sure it's powerful enough to drag a bought, the thought of watching it slide backwards down a slip whilst trying to recover a boat makes me feel ill! I'd decided that buying an old land rover defender would be a good move and far cheaper to run each month than a berth.

Our budget for a boat would be somewhere between 10 and 12 grand - we don't want to spend any more until we know what our usage habits will be.

So my questions are as follows:

1. Having done some homework, it seems that the Bayliner boats of this size with a cuddy are readily available. Boats at this price or less tend to be around 5-10 yrs old. Am I setting myself up for a real headache by purchasing a boat of this age? I wouldn't buy a car that age and expect reliability so are boats and marine engines any different?

2. We'd probably do occasional overnights in a boat so my next question, whilst sounding a bit daft, is relevant and will make some of you chuckle! Are the small portable loos fitted in these type of boats able to accept every "type" of "input" or only liquid "input"?

3. For a first boat, expecially older ones, is it more sensible to get something with an outboard rather than a sterndrive?

4. On a 18-20 foot cuddy, what sort of engine power is required to drag a sausage/donut/skier without too much hassle? I see 20' boats around with 220hp sterndrives and 90hp outboards on 18' boats - are both size/power ratios adequate for this?

5. Can I ask more questions later?


I really appreciate the help, it seems very difficult to get information about this particular subject at times!

Thx
tinstaafl

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[hlb]

Welcome..

Hope this helps..

Question 2. Yes I think some folk crap in them as well. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

From last week............. And no. You cant ask anymore questions.!!../forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

am new to boating and am planning to buy my first boat for general cruising and skiing/donuts. There will be 2 adults and 3 kids aboard and, with limited funds, am thinking about buying a new sports boat/walk around which must be trailerable. Qs as folllows plse;
A) i have a front wheel drive Volvo V70. I know about max towing weights etc, but I assume this is OK for the slipways etc ????? i would like a 4x4 but obviously that's more money to upgrade......
B) The boat. I have researched a fair bit, and the Bayliner 175 still seems storming value at £12995 incl trailer. It's 17'6" with 7'1" beam and takes 6 people. Even looking spending £5k more on Ranieris or Quicksilver or bigger Bowriders, I don't seem to be able to get really any more for my money. 1. Am I correct and is this a good first boat to buy? 2.Can anyone recommend anything else ?

Many thanks




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whisper
(regular)
19/06/2004 17:05
Re: first boat [re: charlumax] Post Reply




Hi and welcome.
It is very common for people to buy their first boat and then change it for something bigger or different in style within a year or two. This is because they discover what their real boating priorites are. It makes sense therefore for your first boat to be second hand, as it will be atleast 15-20% cheaper than a new one when only one year old. The models you mention are OK though it would pay you to look at the test reports in such as MBM which may give you more alternatives to consider.
Unfortunately Bayliners have got a poor reputation but this seems to refer to early boats not those of the last 5 yrs or so, furthermore this fact can make a 2 or 3 yr old one a bargain buy.

Re the V70 - being frontwheel drive is not the best set up for hauling a boat up a wet slipway , though you may manage ok if the boat is not too heavy. You could of course fit a tow attachment to the front of the car but this is an extra expense and won't do the residuals of the car a lot of good. How about swapping yours for the AWD version ?

Good luck with whatever you decide to buy - the first few weeks are the worst - honest


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Talbot
(regular)
19/06/2004 18:07
Re: first boat [re: whisper] Post Reply




With front wheel drive it is vital that you have a long rope to assist with haul outs (i.e. attach trailer to long rope, and rope to car) If the slipway is slippy, then also use it for launch. If the car is still not able to make any progress up the slipway, then secure the rope under the front (theres normally somewhere that you can attach a tow rope)


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hlb
(regular)
19/06/2004 19:14
Re: first boat [re: charlumax] Edit Post Reply




Yep. Dont buy new for a first boat. Mind I would not ever buy a new boat. Much better for some one else to add all the goodies and loose the first big kick in depreciation. Binladiners, Well they have had a bad reputation in the past. Some say that they've inproved.?? I'd say, more of a lake boat than sea. Think you all ready know that front wheel drive is not the best for towing up muddy slipways. Maybe just see what your local ones are like. Just get some thing cheap and see how you go on. You might hate it or love it...But then again theres the SWMBO....


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Get Yer Flags ear
Haydn
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PaulF
(regular)
20/06/2004 09:44
Re: first boat [re: charlumax] Post Reply




Yes Welcome to boating.

My first boat, used for ski-ing was a 13ft Prout Catarmaran with on old Perkins 30hp outboard. It cost me a staggering £110, but it was 1971 and the guy needed some cash cos he'd got the wrong side of the Inland Revenue! Myself and a whole bunch of friends learned with it. After one year it was sold and a Yarecraft Sea Swallow with a 50HP Mercury followed.

Anyway , you have already had some very sound advice, it is VERY unusual for a 'new' boater to keep his/her first boat more than two seasons, mostly it is changed after the first one. Nothing to do with poor judgement, but ones' requirements are not necessarily clear at the outset. ALL boats are a compromise, regardless of what size budget you have.

Dont stretch yourself for the first boat. Just enjoy it, take into account all the families feelings, it is vital that nobody is frightened or put off at this stage, take it slowly. Then when they are hooked, you can be more confident about what direction you want to go in. Then make a boat selection MORE appropriate for your requirements, and then you will feel happier that your investment is sound.

Have a great time. Paul


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PaulF
(regular)
20/06/2004 09:46
Re: first boat [re: charlumax] Post Reply




Yes. Welcome to boating.

My first boat, used for ski-ing was a 13ft Prout Catarmaran with on old Perkins 30hp outboard. It cost me a staggering £110, but it was 1971 and the guy needed some cash cos he'd got the wrong side of the Inland Revenue! Myself and a whole bunch of friends learned with it. After one year it was sold and a Yarecraft Sea Swallow with a 50HP Mercury followed.

Anyway , you have already had some very sound advice, it is VERY unusual for a 'new' boater to keep his/her first boat more than two seasons, mostly it is changed after the first one. Nothing to do with poor judgement, but ones' requirements are not necessarily clear at the outset. ALL boats are a compromise, regardless of what size budget you have.

Dont stretch yourself for the first boat. Just enjoy it, take into account all the families feelings, it is vital that nobody is frightened or put off at this stage, take it slowly. Then when they are hooked, you can be more confident about what direction you want to go in. Then make a boat selection MORE appropriate for your requirements, and then you will feel happier that your investment is sound.

Have a great time. Paul


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itsonlymoney
(regular)
20/06/2004 09:52
Re: first boat [re: hlb] Post Reply




Now you lot just stop this bayliner bashing right now It is true that early B,liners suffered some build quality problems however this has been sorted with modern B,liners offering exeptional value for money. They are reasonably well fitted with lots of standard equipment that ordinarally would be options. I agree with whisper and hlb much better to buy second hand cos till you have tryed it you wont be sure exactly what you require from a boat.
Good luck with whatever you buy.
Regards - Ian


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Play the best game you can with the cards you've been dealt ! ! !
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charlumax
(new user )
20/06/2004 11:17
Re: first boat [re: itsonlymoney] Post Reply




thanks for the feedback. All I could add is that I totally take your point re initial depreciation, and it's something i look at carefully. HOWEVER..... re boats that I'm looking at, there is simply such a lack of stock around that if you find a 2/3 year old 17/18' boat the're always £10k - £11k, so as i said when i started, for the sake of £2k i get a brand new boat, 5 years warranty on hull and engine etc.


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TrueBlue
(regular)
20/06/2004 11:36
Re: first boat [re: charlumax] Post Reply




I can only make a comment on your car; V70's are not the best towing vehicle, having a modern engine they are lacking in power at the bottom end as well as being front wheel drive, as somebody else here suggested you might care to consider the AWD variants. V70 AWD models are rare, however the V70XC is an AWD car and there are some about s/h. The diesel engine version is really quite good (unless your driving style is to go screamin' about). You will discover that if you do any serious towing your fule consumption in a petrol engined car will be poor. Diesels are better in this respect.




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Stop what you're doing and wait my signal
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hlb
(regular)
20/06/2004 12:02
Re: first boat [re: charlumax] Edit Post Reply




Waranties on engines are unfortunatly not for your benifit. They are there to force you to use original parts and even oil in some cases, at exorbitant expence. Buy a five year old boat for half the price. Use the extra to buy another car.






<hr width=100% size=1> Get Yer Flags ear</font color=red>
Haydn

 

[Planty]

Hiya, Get ready to receive a bundle of replies that say something like, "Not this old chestnut again!!" "Try searching the archives!!" etc. Sorry but it seems to be the stock response to most newbies, don't know why, all of us were new once. Oh and fill in a bit more of your profile, thats a favourite too, it is nice to know where you intend to boat though and can help reponses greatly.

Anyway, welcome to the forum, from my experience of doing the same 3 years ago I might respond as follows:

Budget, seems good, make sure anything you look at has a complete survey including emgine survey and oil analysis. Bayliners have a nick name "BinLiners", has this any bearing on quality, I don't know.

Trailing and launching, not as problematic as you may think, Mondeo nice heavy car, skill of operative loading etc more of a concern. Do have a look at "Dry Racking" in the area you intend to boat, can be as cheap as buying a Trailer and certainly cheaper than buying another vehicle. Effectively Boat gets put in and out as you desire and racked at all other times, good system used it myself.

Outboard/Inboard, Outboards have a rep for being more problematic, depends greatly on personal preference, always had inboards myself and looked after them religously. Anything Marine is problematic and more importantly bl**dy expensive so buy as new as poss and check, check, check! Remember BOAT stands for "Bring On Another Thousand" Normal running costs are at least 10% of original cost of boat so work it out first.

Loo's, OK for most things, tend to find most boaters use for liquid use and moor in marinas with "facilities" for most other things, certainly early on doubt you will be anchoring off and staying overnight, that takes time and experience.

Dragging Ringos etc depends on size of Ringo occupants but most sports boats this size will cope admirably, 220hp would simply scare your pants off, I know have tried!!

And finally, get trained on your boat the first time you put it in the water, do your ICC (At the very least) straight away and involve the whole family. Also pamper the partner in your life, listen to the initial worries and be gentle, don't blat around at first, nurture them into it, they will come to love it that way and allow you to "Boat" as much as you like. Scare them once eraly on and forget it!!

Any more questions? look forward to them, happy boating. Paul

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[Roy]

Welcome to the forum. There are loads of people on here with great experience - more than I have, but I can answer some of your q's

First off, if your boat is small - i.e. under 20 ft especially with outboard not sterndrive it will be light enough to tow and launch with the ford mondeo which has loads of top end grunt and enough to tow carefully too- make sure you are using a dry slipway or if not, chock the wheels and rope the boat off - get advice on this and help the first time. Some slips will launch for you for £5 or so using their vehicle.

1. Care is needed here as you will find. Best take advice from others who will advise better.
2. Our first boat was a 21.5 ft searay with one of these potapotties. It accepts all kinds of human waste!! Don't hold much and is same as a caravan system.
3. Only had sterndrives so can't comment, but they add more weight to boat than outboards.
4. 90 hp or even less will pull all manner of water toys. Getting a skier out of deep water needs some power though but think you have loads with 90hp.
5. It's how we all learn - ask away.

Enjoy the summer.
Roy

<hr width=100% size=1>What does this mean then?

 

[jhr]

Others will answer more wisely, and in greater detail than I but:

1) Modern Bayliners are fine. Some problems 10-15 years ago have left them with a reputation for shoddiness that the more modern boats do not deserve. They are mass produced and built down to a price but they'll get you on the water affordably and in safety. Of course, what you really need is a Sea Ray, but you'll learn /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

Mechanically, they will only be as good as the engine. Almost invariably with a Bayliner (and other small US sport boats) this means a MerCruiser, which is basically a marinised V6/V8 car engine. Look for the things you'd look for in a second hand car - service record, invoices, evidence that the previous owner has loved and cherished her - it's even more important than with a car. Also check that the outdrive has been similarly nurtured and that gaiters and bellows are not perished.

2) I own a slightly bigger (22ft) sport cuddy with a chemical loo. It is possible to use the loo for all purposes, but I prefer to restrict use to liquid input because (a) they don't half fill up quickly and (b) without going into too much unsavoury detail, solids need a bit of tidying up and their olfactory presence lingers in confined spaces. Having said which, I have young kids, and when they gotta go, they gotta go.

3) and 4) have been covered better than I could

5) Bien sur!

I'd echo the point about training and not scaring people. I have gone very gingerly but, at one point, my son (then aged 6) was becoming terrified of anything above displacement speed. He's better now but it was an anxious time..........

BTW, check the effect that towing a ringo has on your insurance premium. You may get a shock...............

<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho

 

[jon_bailey]

Have sent PM.

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[Solitaire]

Firstly, wellcome. Secondly, oh that your questions were easy to answer!! By the time this thread has reached it's natural conclussion, you will have so many conflicting, but mainly informative, solutions you'll be spoilt for choice!!
I see from you bio that you are into flying and that this also your first venture into boating. Before deciding on a boat may I suggest you do theRYA Level 2 Powerboat course. This course is designed to not only give you boat handling skills, but also you can use the opportunitity to discuss over 2 days what you want to get from your boating.
It is very seldom that anyody gets their first boat right first time!! You have mentioned Bayliners as being an option but there are many more, but at first glance I understand why you may consider Bayliner with reference to price. But there are better options in terms of build qualitity and "ride"

Again only a suggestion, but go and try as many boats as you can - SeaRay, Monterey, Bayliner, Rinker, Glastron, Regal etc etc. Compare inboard with outboard but then you won't know exactly what it is you are looking to compare!!

In terms of age of boat and engine reliability look at the hours run - don't be fooled into thinking that a 5 year old boat with low engine hours may be a better option than one with high engine hours. Engines don't like sitting doing nothing, particularly in a salt water hostile environment.I rather look at a boat that has been run and regualrly serviced than a boat that has just sat about!!

Consider contacting the Pathfinder Powerboat Club Boating is <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.powerboattraininguk.co.uk>Serious Fun

 

[martynwhiteley]

My experience is more small cruiser than sports cuddy related, but I'll offer a response to some of your questions whilsts other pick up the rest.

1. Age comparisons between boats and cars are not that useful. Boats are not generally regarded as very reliable beasts at any age, and often brand new ones are the worst. Most of the mechanical and electrical parts suffer more by non-use, than regular use, paticularly with poor 'winterisation'.

A 10 year old boat that has been well cared for and serviced, is potentially the most reliable option, pound for pound. However parts are very expensive, and particular exhaust and manifold components can be well worn and pricey to replace. Also check the hoses on the outdrive leg, and for corrosion on the leg itself.

2. Portaloos are the same as those used in caravan and camping, can take solids, but you have to dispose of it manually, so eat your curry with care!

3. From the fist boat point of view, a sterndrive would prove easier to get to grips with, and be more suitable for the 18-20 ft size. However it is easier to add a new outboard to replace a clapped out one, if you find a real nice boat with an iffy engine.

4. From a sterndrive point of view, a 135hp petrol, or 120 hp diesel (the smallest units available) would be adequate. A 90hp ob on an 18ft would prob be more or less equal to a 135 hp sterndrive on a 20ft.


<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mboat.org>http://www.mboat.org</A></font color=blue>

 

[Geoffs]

Hi, and welcome.

I've been running a 19ft cuddy sportscruiser for the last 5 years and have endless fun and enjoyment, and staying on board for a few nights is quite OK, as long as you don't expect the ultimate in luxury.

Personally, I don't fancy dragging a boat around on a trailer, so dry berth (stack) mine. It's not cheap, but good value, and looks more reasonable when you look as expenses of trailing (trailer, extra road car fuel, slipway fees etc., etc.). It's nice not having look for slipways, and drag out at the end of an outing. Also popular slipways at busy times can involving waiting.

1) The newer the boat you can get, the better. Your budget should get you something reasonable.It's amazing the number of boats that are a few years old, but have quite low hours.

2) As mentioned, overnighting OK, I prefer to stay in a marina or harbour where there are facilities. This helps overloading the on board loo, which is OK with multi input., but fills up quickly.

3) My preference is for inboard sterndrive. Had bad experiences with early 2 stroke o/b's. But modern 4 stroke or DI 2 strokes do seem pretty good. Also don't like a big lump on the back, looks ugly and means you don't have much of a bathing platform.

4) My 19 footer goes well with 145hp, pulls skier, so ringo's etc no problem. 90hp, even on 18ft, may be a bit small. 20ft would probably want 170hp V6, much over 20 then into 200+hp V8's. A larger engine doesn't just mean better speed and acceleration, but means you can cruise at lower rpm, in more peaceful surroundings. I can cruise at 20 knots with 3,000 rpm on tacho.

5) ignore HLB, ask all the Q's you like!

<hr width=100% size=1>Old Chinese proverb 'Man who sail boat into rice field, soon get into paddy'

 

[tinstaafl]

Hmm, a deluge of information to absorb! Thanks very much everyone, all of this has proved useful and interesting reading and is greatly appreciated. This is proving to be the most friendly forum I frequent!

Just a few points, for those who are interested:

My partner is as keen as I am to get onto the water so I have to convince no one - for a change

I wouldn't go near the water without taking some boat-driving lessons/courses - flying has taught me that operating large machines and lack of knowledge do not mix! One could perhaps escape death more easily in a boat but it can still be dangerous...

We're keen on trailing because we're likely to drag the boat all over the country - I could see us becoming bored leaving it in one place. I can imagine the groans from you all - "he's so naive!", etc - but we do go to Scotland a bit and it would be great to take a boat with us.

Thanks for the info about the portaloo's - that's put my mind at rest, heheh!


Further questions, if anyway has the patience:

Fair point about using the mondeo, but please explain what you mean by "roping the boat off"

Do MOST slipways offer a service where they'll put the boat in and recover it for you?

If outboards and marine engines in general are pretty unreliable, is it not common for breakdowns to occur whilst at sea? How does one make the activity pleasurable if constantly worrying about floating away unpowered? Yes, I know planes can break down too but they are inherently FAR more reliable than car engines when older and at least you can guarantee you'll get down


Thx for your input all!
tinstaafl

<hr width=100% size=1>
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who do not.

 

[martynwhiteley]

Just picking up on the subject of engine reliability (perhaps an even bigger topic of forum conversation than newbies and boat choices!).

There will be no concessus of opinion on this one, but the advice would always be to be prepared for the engine to fail whilst out at sea, e.g. training, life jackets, flares, anchor, vhf, auxiliary engine perhaps.

Sod's law has seen that whilst owning a twin engine boat, I have never had an engine failure whilst on the move, but once switching to a single, it happened twice (not by engine failure but from fuel and throttle linkage problems).

Being on top of the maintenance, and always doing the pre-checks to strainers/filters etc. will minimise any faults, but filters blocking and impellors failing can happen just as easily on a new boat.

I think it would be safe to say that boat engine installations of all makes and ages are not as reliable as a car equivalent. Perhaps when Honda, Mazda, or Toyota etc. start building sports boat packages things may improve!

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mboat.org>http://www.mboat.org</A></font color=blue>

 

[jhr]

Reliability

The marine environment introduces various factors that make for greater unreliability but I wouldn't want you to think that you'll break down every time you go out - or, indeed, at all. As others have said, a lot will be down to the way in which the engine is looked after and some problems specific to boats, mainly to do with corrosion, damp and sea water cooling systems. Learn a bit about them and it will help. I am effectively a mechanical illiterate and manage to get by.

Depending on where you intend to do your boating, you can also get <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.seastart.co.uk/seastart.html>Seastart cover</A> - like the AA but boaty. Coverage is very good on the Solent and surrounding areas but patchy or non-existent in many other places. In sheltered waters (which is where I assume you will be) it's always possible to drop your anchor (you will have one, won't you?) call for help on the radio, or even a mobile, and wait for it to arrive, Sea rescue services are generally exemplary in the UK though the RNLI won't thank you if you use them as a breakdown service.

We've put 50 hours on our 3 year old boat (bought 2nd hand last summer) with nothing more than minor mechanical problems, which I have been able to sort out. Famous last words /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif.



<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho

 

[Hugo_Andreae]

We published a group test of 21ft sports cuddies in last October's issue of Motor Boats Monthly. Although these are a little bigger than what you are looking at, it might help you decide between brands and highlight some important differences between inboard and outpoard powered craft.

For example most of the 140hp outboard boats were as quick as the 5.0L V8 inboard boats with 220-260hp because they weighed up to 500kg less. That will obviously benefit both towing weights and fuel consumption as well.

For the record the test was won by an inboard powered Monterey 218LSC because it offered similar value for money as the Bayliner (3rd) but a slightly better fit out, cuddy design and image. Well worth checking out their smaller boats too.

You can order a test reprint on line if you want to read it for yourself

Hugo Andreae

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[ACW]

I would like to add to this debate in a request for advice. I am an RYA Yachtmaster Offshore but in sail not power. That said I have some understanding of the sea and behaviour of craft. However I am not naieve enough to think that power behaves like sail. Keen to get my young family on the water and not able to afford the running costs of a yacht, also requiring more flexibility over launching, cruising areas etc, I have spent some time seeking a suitable sportsboat. having viewed and tried many (Fletchers, Larsons et al) I have bought an 1802 Bayliner cuddy with 120hp outboard. Boat and motor were new in 98 and have been truly lovingly cared for. I hope to encourage my young daughters to enjoy the sea through cruising, skiing etc. I have a full complement of safety equipment, lifejackets, flares, VHF, compass, gps etc etc (comes from Yachtmaster side!). I would truly appreciate some views from people who have used a similar boat for other than coastal/inland sports. We intend to trail her to France this year and hope to spend time in the solent. My intention is to buy an auxiliary outboard and I was hoping that given teh right weather conditions, she might be suitable for a 'flying trip' across the Channel. Hoest and helpful views would be much appreciated. We hope to use her as a travel base with camping gear etc on board.

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[SlowlyButSurely]

When you say "we", if this includes SWMBO, I would strongly advise you to get the seal of approval for the toilet facilities on board before you buy any boat of this sort of size. Failure to do this can seriously hamper you boating (unless she is a very game girl).

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[tinstaafl]

SBS, she is quite aware of the toileting facilities of these sorts of boats Tbh, I'm the one who's usually fussy about loos! She's happy as long as the door shuts.

tinstaafl

<hr width=100% size=1>
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who do not.

 

[Planty]

Used our Sea Rey 225 for a fair bit of cruising before moving up, great fun and very able, was totally new to boating then and would not have been brave enough to try channel. Solent etc no probs, round to Dartmouth OK etc.

Great intro for us and our lads into boating and overnighted, not often, but thoroughly enjoyable when we did. We did trail to Spain which was "interesting". My only advice make sure everything is confirmed in writing, we had a few occasions where we arrived to find prebooked and prepaid "arrangements" had strangley, never been heard of.

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[jhr]

Flying trip X Channel

Ooer; I've hardly been outside the Solent, but I know there are several posters on here who have taken small boats to the Channel Islands and/or France, given the right conditions. Worth contacting the Pathfinder Powerboat Club, mentioned above, and a MoboChat headbanger called BrendanS, who takes his 21ft Regal all over the place, and won't go out unless the forecast is at least F5/6 with moderate seas /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

In short, it can be done, but maximum caution, common sense, spare fuel and a liferaft advised!

<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho

 

[itsonlymoney]

I will try and be concise.
What you need is a Bayliner 1952 sports cuddy. We had one for two years before our current 2655 sports cruiser and stayed onboard every weekend, all you need is a camp stove and a bit of initiative to make it easier and more comfortable than you would think. We fitted extra cabin lights for the evenings and a table to cook on. Lots of other innovative ideas too many to list here but you get the idea.

Inboard 3L Mercriuser engine ample for ski-ing or towing. Chemical loo included, and yes if you must you can do No2s but don't make a habit of it. Cuddy cabin is comfortable, lovely and warm and not claustrophobic a bit if your pissed enough. You can pick up a 3yr ish. old one for around £12K including trailer.

Of course bare in mind that in a year or so when you have a better idea what you want from a boat you WILL want to trade up to a 24 / 26 cruiser but you are doing the right thing starting with a cuddy. Inccidentally are you sure you want to drag it around on a trailer, I know it costs more but its much nicer to be on a marina berth especially the social scene.

Good luck with whatever you buy. Regards - Ian

<hr width=100% size=1>Play the best game you can with the cards you've been dealt ! ! !

 

[amf]

We are relative newbies to boating and took our S23 to France/CI's on an MBM cruise back in May. It was great fun in a small boat.

Whilst we now have confidence to plan for a West Country cruise I think I would still do a cross channel "in company" just because of a) single engine b)the shipping lanes and c) no radar.

Your confidence/Yachtmaster experience may outweigh these concerns though.

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