Advice for a novice on lowering the sails.

[ProDave]

ProDave, are you a member of a club? There's a great sailing club at Fortrose (Chanonry SC) and I'm sure there are others in your part of the world where you will find loads of helpful advice.

Yes we've just joined the Chanonry sailing club, and everyone we've met has been great. We have an offer of training on our own boat from one of their RYA instructors which we will take up. I actually think it's the finer details of things like raising and lowering the sails that we actually need rather than the actual sailing of the boat.

 

[Searush]

Lots of good info there. As you spotted, the key thing is to use the topping lift & leave the mainsheet loose. One danger of this - DO NOT lean on the boom! It will swing away from you & you could end up in the 'oggin!

Carry a couple of sail ties in your pocket & throw them quickly around the sail to bundle it up. You can sort out a nice tidy stow later in harbour or on the mooring. Another cheap & useful aid is to have a wire strop to fasten the boom to the backstay once the main is down. This will prevent the boom swinging away from you as you furl the sail & make the job safer.

With such a small light & manouverable boat consider setting sails on the mooring & sailing off (assuming you are on a mooring!) It will increase your confidence when you do it & it's not really that hard if you think it thro.

Enjoy the learning!

 

[VicS]

Another cheap & useful aid is to have a wire strop to fasten the boom to the backstay once the main is down.

I know what your Westerly has but for a wee 18footer it is adequate to leave the boom hanging on the topping lift and just put a little lashing between the boom end and the backstay if they are fairly close .. hoisting it a little on the topping lift will bring it closer.

BUT does it have a backstay?

 

[Pye_End]

So, boat into the wind, I go on the foredeck (mrs PD at the helm) to take the jib down first.

You should be able to take the jib down on any tack. Easier with wind forward of the beam as it is easier to control on deck, but it will drop under load (assuming hanked).

Alternatively sail hard on the wind (ie close hauled with the jib pulling, relax the meainsheet and the main should drop.

You can do either first. If it is breezy then it may well be easier to dump the jib first. Depends a bit on the boat and the sail plan probably.

 

[Lakesailor]

Usefull comments.
So when feeding the bolt rope in. it's having to make a pretty tight turn if that makes sense.

Perhaps I need to lower the gooseneck a bit?

I wouldn't lower the gooseneck. You want the boom clear of head-banging territory.

I sail on a friend's Prelude which has a similar sharp entry to the track and like you he has a bolt rope. It's almost a 2 man job to raise the sail. I would fit sail slides. I have them and keep them in the slot using no more than a bungee around the mast. I used mast gates and split pins and stuff before, but the bungee works great.
My gooseneck is on a slde so I can raise it when stowing the sail to make the cockpit a bit clearer and as the slides stop higher up the track it makes the sail stack a bit smaller before I put the sailcoat on.

The strop on my headsail transmits the torque well as I clamped the eyes of that and the headsail wire using some s/s plates. It allows me to see under the foot of the sail to spot put-put hire boats that are determined to cross my bow. Also keeps the foot of the sail off the pulpit rail. I can't overstate how good the furler is. A tug on the sheet and Hey Presto, there is a sail. Furling is just as quick.

Lazyjacks are a pain on a small boat. The battens catch in them and I find it as quick to flake the sail and wrap some ties on as fanny about with lazy jacks. I fitited then to 2 boats and took them off the second one. I don't use them at all now.

 

[Romeo]

It never ceases to amaze me how LS has a photo for absolutely every query ready and waiting!

 

[Lakesailor]

Dedication.

 

[William_H]

A few more comments

Small boats especially must be under way to have control. Speed is control. To stop is to lose control but not necessarily the pressure of wind on sail. A said the jib should come down easily at any point ofsailing. Perhaps easiest is a close reach ie not hard on the wind bu near to it. Enou8gh to keep easy speed from mainsail. Then as said the jib drops on the deck.
You could try a cord from the top of the jib down to a pulley back to the cockpit so it can be pulled down from cockpit.
The main sail does need the boat pointing near to into the wind to have it drop easily. Especially when using bolt rope. I have always used a bolt rope. I fabricated a small guide in the form of a plate of SS about 1cm wide 7cms long. To this was welded a piece of 3/16 SS rod about 12cms long. welded in the middle of the rod at right angles to the palte. The plate has a hole at each end to allow it to be rivetted into the web inside the track. The ends of the rod aree bent into a loop and curved such that they press on the sail just aft of the bolt rope. (wish I had a photo.) thius pulls the sail ionto line to go up the track.
I have always cut the sides of the track away from the mast down to the web to facilitate sail sliding in.
I would suggest you do this up a bit higher than the existing opened up track. I t will make it easier to get the bolt rope in. good luck with the new boat olewioll

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Yes we've just joined the Chanonry sailing club, and everyone we've met has been great. We have an offer of training on our own boat from one of their RYA instructors which we will take up. I actually think it's the finer details of things like raising and lowering the sails that we actually need rather than the actual sailing of the boat.

The key is holding the boat into the wind and using the engine to have enough power to do so. With the bow into the wind, the sails should largely come down on their own when the halyards are released - depends a bit on lubricating tracks etc.

And of course you can make lowering the main a bit less sensitive to the bow being in the wind by leaving the main sheet free. I don't do that because my crew need to steady themselves using the boom.

So for me the sequence is:

start engine and steer into wind
on with the topping lift and strap down the boom
furl the genoa on the roller reef
tighten the lazyjacks
release the mainsail halyard and let the main fall

 

[reginaldon]

I own a 19'er with Plastimo roller reefing genoa - little or no problem, however I have a roller reefing/furling main - around the boom of course and it is a v. v. slow job to furl, however I do have a generally sheltered space to do so before I enter the harbour. I may try dropping the main and tidying later.

 

[lw395]

I sometimes sail 20ft traditional racing boats with no motor.
Depending on the situation, we may put either main or jib up first.
Dropping the main on a close reach is quite common, luff up for the first bit to get the boom in the boat, then bear off enough to sail effectively on just the jib.

When sailing with just one sail, the boat will be unbalanced, so you need to keep a bit of pace on, so the rudder works better.

It may be worth getting to know how the boat handles under jib only, once moving you may find it sails surprisingly far upwind. Or not, I don't know your boat!

If you have space to sail free under jib only while starting the motor, that may work well. Always have space to bail out if the motor won't go.

On a yacht with an inboard, I would agree generally best to start the motor first.

On any boat it's worth sorting the systems so the sails go up and down without snags, excess friction, swearing etc.
Those jib furlers are good, I think the key is they're supposed to wind the jib luff wire the way it's laid, not unlay it?
A proper job with a headfoil is better, you can use a tiny bit of jib to steer the boat then, but the foil-less type are a lot cheaper in small sizes. The ball bearing swivel at the top of the jib is a key part of it. When I had one it was on a dinghy with no forestay, you probably need 2 inches of clearance between the jib luff and forestay?

Just some alternative thoughts to balance the generally good advice from others. I prescribe a day playing about practicing picking up moorings MOB and generally getting better than averaging at knowing your boat.
The key thing I ever did was to get SWMBO happy to steer the boat while I did the sails.

 

[jwilson]

I'm a novice sailor just learning things.

Today we took Ferndell out for her second sail since getting her. No problems getting the sails up and sailing her. But getting the sails down...

I always thought the theory was point the boat into the wind, thighten the mainsheet, then take the sails down.

I think you may have learnt on bigger boats. With an 18 ft boat you definitely do NOT want the mainsheet tight. Drop or furl the jib first, then from closehauled let the mainsheet out till the sail is flapping. As the boat slows go up to the mast and let go the main halliard, then get a sail tie roughly round most of the sail. Tidy up at leisure.

A proper topping lift helps: ie one that goes from boom end to the masthead. Raising this a bit not only stops the boom end crashing down but takes drive out of the sail, which is what you want when lowering or hoisting. On a small boat the "bit of line to a backstay" type topping lifts restrain the boom too much for use when hoisting or lowering - the sail fills and tips the boat. You can however do without a topping lift if you have to, but watch where the boom end bangs down...

 

[sarabande]

feeding the luff into the main is often a real b*gger. On dinghies, I used to make sure that the main's luff was placed well for'd of the mast, so that it had no chance to escape from the mast slot as I hoisted it.

Alternatively, you might be able to feed the bolt rope through a pre-feeder such as this :

http://www.stormforcemarine.com/wichard_opening_prefeeder.html

There are cheaper ones around, natch !

 

[VicS]

feeding the luff into the main is often a real b*gger. On dinghies, I used to make sure that the main's luff was placed well for'd of the mast, so that it had no chance to escape from the mast slot as I hoisted it.

Alternatively, you might be able to feed the bolt rope through a pre-feeder such as this :

http://www.stormforcemarine.com/wichard_opening_prefeeder.html

There are cheaper ones around, natch !

The Spinlock one I posted a link to earlier perhaps! See below for a picture.

To be honest I have an earlier version of it but I have not found it any good because like the OP my sail entry point is to close to the boom.... I have thought about making a new sail entry higher up but not got around to it

 

[ProDave]

Thanks again for all the advice, it's all making sense.

regarding feeding the bolt rope into the mast, I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion I either need to extend the existing entry point, or make a new one higher up. Or go with my plan of fitting plastic sliders instead.

 

[Lakesailor]

Sliders. If you space them correctly, they almost flake the sail for you.
You can always take them off if you don't like them.
I had a new main made for my Foxcub18 with a bolt rope. I ended up fitting sliders.

That's just my own opinion of course. Others may have other (wrong) opinions

 

[Neil]

I sail an 18' yacht, not unlike Neil's, without a motor.

For the return Gunter/ Gaff rig is great for swift and certain sail handling. By having one topping lift on either side of the sail, which acts like a lazy jacks, combined with the weight of the gaff, I can drop the main instantly. Getting rid of the jib is slightly harder, but it is a comparatively small sail, and can usually be let fly without driving the boat off in the wrong direction.

So in answer to your question "what did they do without a motor, in the old days?" I guess the answer is that they sailed boats which, because of long keels and heavy rig, were more predictable for handling, and had harbours, not marinas, which were set up to be approached under sail.

This is very much like my situation: long keel/gaff rig/lazy jacks acting as topping lift. However, since I have the motor, I motor out of the harbour, then raise sail in clear water, and vice versa. I would lock off the tiller while raising the main, which sets me off sailing, even with a slack mainsheet, hence clear water needed. Would I be better off leaving the rudder free? - it might round me into the wind. The jib gets unfurled when I'm happy with everything. Coming back in is just the reverse.

I worked this out by trial and error - it seems to work for me such that I would often still do it this way even with a 'crew' - experience depending.

I've heard of another way, with this type of boat - set the motor running, and while raising/lowering sail, steer the boat by shifting your weight about.

 

[William_H]

Bolt rope into mast.

With the entry slot close to the boom. Just a few more thoughts.
If you leave the boat on a mooring and leave the mainsail on the boom then yes go for slider slugs. They are easy to attach with about 6 turns of whipping twine around the bolt rope and through the "handle "of the slug. Use a large needle and twine size to suit needle. Slugs are quite cheap. Fit a slug about every .7 metre. This means when the sail is flaked down you have .35 metre of sail out each side of the boom. Having the entry slot very low will be a real advantage as you drill a hole and fit a split pin above the slot to stop slugs escaping. You then need a cover to go over the boom and mainsail and of course some bungees or ties to hold it down before you fit the cover. That is how most people in our club have their mainsail.
Especially if you reef the mainsail you need a substantial slug at the top of the mast well attached in line with the rest of the slugs. This because when reefed there is a l;arge pull backwards out of the track which is normally taken by the halyard when top of sail is at top of mast.

However if you tow the boat to the water or remove the mainsail after each trip then the bolt rope is best.
Further if you want to be able to reef from the cockpit. Not so important on a mast head rig with small main and large jib, then you need to omit the bottom slugs or stick as I do use just bolt rope. If you stick with bolt rope yes you need a entry slot up higher and a prefeeder. My prefeeder means that I can feed the top of the main in then simply pull the halyard an up she goes. It does not fall on its own however but takes a person at the mast to pull it down.

Don't be swayed by others way of doing things just find what suits you. I and very few people in our club with o/b auxiliaries actually carry the engines. (Safer at home) and very few use roller furling or reefing.
But then we have little tide problems and consistent and predictable winds. Plus we have a club rescue boat on standby for racing and a local excellent rescue service who don't mind non emergency tows if you are a member. (Contributor) I always return to the swing mooring under mainsail and depart with main and jib up. Picking up the mooring is easy because I leave the dinghy attached on a long painter. Giving a big target. Good luck and most important don't stress that wife give her lots of praise and lots of helming time. olewill

 

[concentrik]

Clip on

Slightly OT but since we're talking about foredeck work I'd encourage the op to clip on, every time. Don't leave it till the occasion when the deck's heaving, get into the habit of working as safely as poss all the time. You'll learn how to coordinate your movements on your own boat, then when you need to work up front in a blow it'll be a breeze!

I too use the topping lift to 'scandalise' the main, taking most of the drive out. Always engine on first - if there's trouble starting it you want to find out while you can still sail the boat away from the land!

 

[Iona of Exe]

There seems to be a vital piece of the jigsaw missing here, your yacht has exactly the same bolt rope configuration as mine had, which is a pain the bum both raising and more importantly lowering. I too am a first season little "big" (aka 22') boat sailor and found that with your existing bolt rope, once you begin to lower the sail will mean that you have unattached sail free to billow about (unless you have octopus arms), whereas if you have sliders they stay attached to the mast therefore holding the sail in place, making life much easier to lower and lash the sail down.
No need for lazyjacks cos our sails really aren't big enough - provided the luff is still attached to the mast! For the sake of a fivers worth of sliders and shackles why not make yours' and the missuses life easy?