Adding 2 oil stroke in diesel fuel

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

FWIW -
Shell do use separate tanks for storage at Avonmouth - they don't use the same tanks as supermarket fuels.

In my experience supermarket diesel drives OK, but it will knacker your EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve by about 100K miles, whereas Vpower (or BP ultimate) will keep it nice & clean indefinitely. Vpower gives me +4.2 mpg.

And yes, I've used acetone in Ford Dover engines (3.5% mpg gain), but a fag to source & store the acetone (it works by weakening the molecular & cellular structure of the diesel so it burns better)

And the best diesel fuel additive for power/smoothness/no smoke/lubricating pumps/economy etc is Millers PowerPlus.

But if anyone thinks that no additives make any difference - that's absolutely fine by me. I wasn't bothered much myself until fuel costs went through the roof.

IMHO, petrol composition is more critical to engines than diesel fuel. Yes, diesel additives will have an affect on a diesel engine such as more miles to the gallon, better lubrication etc; however, these are insignificant and virtually go unnoticed as other parameters have much greater impact ie engine service, oil change, air intake , operating regime, etc.

As a matter of interest, we have 3 Mercedes E class diesel cars; my older one is 10 years old and has done 345,000 miles, never had issues with the engine (the other two are catching up quickly) and so far it has had all kind of diesels fuels, good and bad; but the engine has been regularly maintained.

 

[jimi]

I fill up with the extra zoom diesel in 1 in 4 fills to help keep the system clean.

 

[maxi77]

Guess most people dont know as they drive along the "Bonny Bonny Banks of Loch Lomond "there is a big enough Nuclear Arsenal in Glen Douglas probably to knock the earth out of orbit-thats everything naval ever produced from Polaris warheads through to Trident.
One of the few places in the UK that is defended like something in a James Bond movie!
The railway to Fort William passes the entrance to Glen Douglas just before it reaches Arrochar on Loch Long.
Anyway why worry about car engines and diesel-those beasties-Trident subs were forever breaking down and having to be tugged back up to Faslane after drifting around aimlessly near Little Cumbrae!
Used to be a days entertainment watching them from our kitchen window on Canada Hill, Bute.
Finally a funny story compliments of Strathclyde University-their Naval Architecture dept et al received an officially anonomous request to design a door capable of withstanding a 40 foot Tsunami as well as amazing pressures and heat!-thats right you drive over the top of Trident subs if you take the road from Loch Lomond to Faslane-built origionally by the MOD as a private route to Faslane.
I am told there are other Sub Pens here and there but they are not exactly advertised.

Someones been pulling your plonker. For a start no trident or before that polaris missiles in Glen Douglas, they are somewhere else nearby. The other road you talk about was to service a laboratory run by what used to be Admiralty Research Laboratories, and as an ex submariner based at Faslane there are no undergound pens so do not see how you could have driven over a Trident boat

 

[Sneaky Pete]

Not bad really. 57 replies and I am still none the wiser when it comes to my original question.
Having said that I have enjoyed reading the replies and have learnt quiet a bit about other things.
I still doubt that fuel manufactures spent millions on research to help older engines. You could say the same with oil manufactures. They spent millions developing super oils and synthetics that last and last but put them in an older boat engine and it can destroy them pretty quickly. In engines like mine the older natural oils work.
What is going to happen to older engines with the new low sulphur fuel. I guess we are going to find out pretty soon now the new season is nearly here.
Once again, thank you for all your replies.

I agree you have tried patiently to get an answer on many occasions here I believe the consensus of opinion is if you want to add 2 stroke to the diesel go ahead it will do no damage but will make your pocket lighter although not many people are doing this preferring to burn off what ever comes out of the nozzle. Secondly Peugeot cars are very reliable except for the odd one or two that can be temperamental.

 

[Nostrodamus]

I knew a local back street garage near to where I worked who always had Peugeot cars in. When I asked him about it he told me the main dealer brings them across to be serviced and then charges huge prices just so they have a Peugeot stamp in the book.

 

[Nostrodamus]

The following is a link to a diesel specialists test on the effects of various additives to low sulphur diesel.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728

 

[jfkal]

So now what?

Still no conclusion out there. What's best for your engine is to run it often and hard . Does more good than adding snake oils, magnets or anything else.
We used to add gasoline in my army days (but only below -20 C ).
Since engines at certain age start using some of their own oil, I cant see why adding a bit of oil to the fuel could hurt. Whether it helps the pump of the injectors .......I don't know. I would not add anything, to be on the save side. Unless its a 2 stroke diesel engine )))

 

[Lakesailor]

If a motor is already buring oil giving it extra oil in the fuel will hasten carbon depositing and ring-gumming etc.
Or am I wrong?

 

[nigelmercier]

Reminds me of a very old joke...

Two old-time, country farmers met in town one day. In the course of their conversation, Jake said to Zeek, "My mule is sick and I don't know what to do." Zeek replied, "When my mule got sick, I made him drink turpentine. The conversation turned to other things and the two soon parted company.

About two weeks later, they again saw each other in town. Jake stormed up to Zeek and in an angry voice, said, "You son of a bitch! I done to my mule just like you did to yours. I fed him turpentine and it killed him dead in two hours. What have you got to say to that?"

Zeek looked at Jake and casually replied, "Yup... It killed mine, too."

 

[vyv_cox]

If a motor is already buring oil giving it extra oil in the fuel will hasten carbon depositing and ring-gumming etc.
Or am I wrong?

Two-stroke oils have a lower ash content than diesel fuel and are designed to fully burn in the combustion chamber.

I can't answer the OP but 4WD forums are full of threads on the subject. Most people seem to report good results but of course most are highly subjective.

 

[fishermantwo]

Two-stroke oils have a lower ash content than diesel fuel and are designed to fully burn in the combustion chamber.

I can't answer the OP but 4WD forums are full of threads on the subject. Most people seem to report good results but of course most are highly subjective.

Yes I agree. When I bought my new yacht there was a thread on the subject and claims were made that adding about 1% of TW3 improved starting and made the engines run quieter so I tried it. I do think it makes a difference. The cost is minor, I have TW3 oil on hand to mix two stroke for an outboard. Give it a go and form your own conclusions.

When I was a fisherman burning a fair bit of diesel I used bio diesel when I could and my old Gardner loved it. The government taxed it out of business in the end. Try some diesel between your fingers. The bio has a very slippery feeling where as the new road diesel feels very dry. Your local stuff may vary but ours is all road diesel now meant for modern cars and trucks.

 

[jfkal]

Turpentine for the engine it is then. I tried saltwater once, killed the engine too.

Reminds me of a very old joke...

Two old-time, country farmers met in town one day. In the course of their conversation, Jake said to Zeek, "My mule is sick and I don't know what to do." Zeek replied, "When my mule got sick, I made him drink turpentine. The conversation turned to other things and the two soon parted company.

About two weeks later, they again saw each other in town. Jake stormed up to Zeek and in an angry voice, said, "You son of a bitch! I done to my mule just like you did to yours. I fed him turpentine and it killed him dead in two hours. What have you got to say to that?"

Zeek looked at Jake and casually replied, "Yup... It killed mine, too."

 

[jfkal]

Urban myth

The seem to use filters and water traps too.

Best advice I had was to never fill up at a garage which had a delivery tanker in the forecourt - there is a fair chance that the delivery will have stirred up any crud present in the bottom of the garage tanks

 

[jfkal]

Volunteers Please

Looking for volunteers with (preferably new) quad engines (triple will do also), expensive engines preferred, to:

Run one on diesel only
Run another on diesel with a good measure of petrol added
Run the third with an even better measure of 2 stroke oil added
Run the fourth (optional) with petrol AND 2 stroke oil added

Report back to us in two years time or once an engine fails (whatever comes earlier)

)

Two-stroke oils have a lower ash content than diesel fuel and are designed to fully burn in the combustion chamber.

I can't answer the OP but 4WD forums are full of threads on the subject. Most people seem to report good results but of course most are highly subjective.

 

[Chrusty 1]

Sulphur content may have been reduced, but your diesel fuel manufacturers may well have added a lubricity agent to compensate.
In N. America we've had ultra low sulphur fuel since about 2001 - not sure of date exactly.
I checked with our Canadian fuel people and they assured me there was an additive put in to counteract the loss of sulphur. I also talked to Yanmar and they said the new ULSD was OK.
I've got a Yanmar 2GM20F and have had no problems with seals and smoke after about 10 years using the ULSD.

If you do a search and/or talk to someone in the know I suspect your British engineers have figured it out too! Engineers know stuff - I are one! They have a lot of training and experience. Or you could post the question on a sailing forum and follow the advice of accountants, bankers and sewing machine salesmen!

Just joking - but as someone said earlier, engine, fuel and oil manufacturers spend a lot of time and money trying to get it right.

sam

Nice one Sam, that made me chortle a bit!

 

[contessaman]

This is slightly "off" topic but diesel related

I would tend to agree with the above comment regarding fuel companies as I am having a great deal of problems with my Peugeot 2.0 Hdi which has only covered 40,000 miles and still under 3 years old. The engine is stalling when the car is brought to a standstill and the engine cuts out for a split second when accelerating through the gears. It also hesitates momentarily when the cruise control setting is raised by 5 MPH. All of these are intermittent faults.

Why mention fuel companies, well I have been advised by the Peugeot main dealers not to use Sainsbury diesel or any other supermarket brand.

had similar episodes with modern diesel cars. Its nothing to do with fuel it will be the dust particle filter. Quite possibly mankinds most stupid invention. All new diesels have them. After 18 months of farting around and throwing money at a new car we got rid of both the family diesel cars. Paid a chunk off my mortgage and bought a 1994 renault espace turbo-d. its indestructable.

back to the thread, I have seen aircraft GPUs that have diesel engines in them run off Jet-B in alaska which is a wide cut fuel like a mixture of kerosene and petrol. they use it there because diesel would freeze and kerosene would wax. whether its good for the engine or not I dont know.

My perkins 4108 runs just fine off plain old diesel, no additives.

 

[Nostrodamus]

My perkins 4108 runs just fine off plain old diesel, no additives.

That's done it...

 

[grumpygit]

had similar episodes with modern diesel cars. Its nothing to do with fuel it will be the dust particle filter. Quite possibly mankinds most stupid invention. All new diesels have them. After 18 months of farting around and throwing money at a new car we got rid of both the family diesel cars. Paid a chunk off my mortgage and bought a 1994 renault espace turbo-d. its indestructable.

back to the thread, I have seen aircraft GPUs that have diesel engines in them run off Jet-B in alaska which is a wide cut fuel like a mixture of kerosene and petrol. they use it there because diesel would freeze and kerosene would wax. whether its good for the engine or not I dont know.

My perkins 4108 runs just fine off plain old diesel, no additives.

All the problems with modern diesels lie wholly at the feet of the MEP's in eurolarlar land.
Depending on one beliefs and how green you feel you are, this bunch of whatever you want to call them have dictated to the motor manufacturers of the world to lower emissions.
The basic 4 stroke (and 2 stroke) in it's self has not really changed over the decades. These who wish for the fossil fuelled vehicle to remain, of which is more for taxation of fossil fuels rather than to change to another derivative of power unit.
All this has created a situation for more and more gizzmo's to be fitted to the engine to make burn leaner so in turn to lower the emissions.
Ok, fuel consumption has decreased, but at a price. The costs of buying and keeping a modern car on the road imo does not give a cost effective gain on the fuel saving of the modern engine. Some of these gizzmo's are the particulate filter along with the catalytic converter and all the sensors and drivers associated with them.
God help us when the boating world gets into full swing of these traits to the combustion engine, Volvo Penta along with other manufacturers are nearly there and are fully electronic now.
Very soon you'll have a lot more to worry about of whether to put 2T oil in your fuel or not!
The op is very wise to treasure his Perkins 4108 and even his Espace TurboD, these in my mind are cost effective units.

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[Jcorstorphine]

Special tank of Cerine

had similar episodes with modern diesel cars. Its nothing to do with fuel it will be the dust particle filter. Quite possibly mankinds most stupid invention. All new diesels have them. After 18 months of farting around and throwing money at a new car we got rid of both the family diesel cars. Paid a chunk off my mortgage and bought a 1994 renault espace turbo-d. its indestructable.

back to the thread, I have seen aircraft GPUs that have diesel engines in them run off Jet-B in alaska which is a wide cut fuel like a mixture of kerosene and petrol. they use it there because diesel would freeze and kerosene would wax. whether its good for the engine or not I dont know.

My perkins 4108 runs just fine off plain old diesel, no additives.

I have recently found out that Peugeot in their wisdom fit a small tank containing a nasty chemical called Cerine. Apparently every time you fill up the diesel tank, there is a sensor on the fuel cap which alerts the onboard computer (might be called ORIC) that it is time to fire a shot of this particular “gloop” into the fuel system.

This chemical passes right through the engine and reacts with the carbon which has built up in the particulate filter and it is expelled as a “quote” harmless gas.

I filled up my car with some expensive Shell V Power last week and my problems with stalling and faltering went away. Four or five days later the symptoms returned whilst I am awaiting the fitting of a fuel regulating valve by Peugeot.

Today, I filled up my tank again and the problems with stalling and faltering have gone.

Now this might be my paranoia with the sh/t car of mine but I just wonder if the particulate filer is blocking and very time I fill up with diesel the Cerine purge, give the particulate filter an enema.

Oh for a simple Perkins or BMC or Ford FSD or better still, a Kelvin

 

[Robin]

I have recently found out that Peugeot in their wisdom fit a small tank containing a nasty chemical called Cerine. Apparently every time you fill up the diesel tank, there is a sensor on the fuel cap which alerts the onboard computer (might be called ORIC) that it is time to fire a shot of this particular “gloop” into the fuel system.

This chemical passes right through the engine and reacts with the carbon which has built up in the particulate filter and it is expelled as a “quote” harmless gas.

I filled up my car with some expensive Shell V Power last week and my problems with stalling and faltering went away. Four or five days later the symptoms returned whilst I am awaiting the fitting of a fuel regulating valve by Peugeot.

Today, I filled up my tank again and the problems with stalling and faltering have gone.

Now this might be my paranoia with the sh/t car of mine but I just wonder if the particulate filer is blocking and very time I fill up with diesel the Cerine purge, give the particulate filter an enema.

Oh for a simple Perkins or BMC or Ford FSD or better still, a Kelvin

Which did you fill up with this time, cheap or dear?