Action needed - NOW!!

[PGD]

Sorry guys but I think we’re loosing the plot slightly, the issue is with Calor starting to withdraw LPG, not whether the Gov’t should remove or raise tax on red diesel.

It comes down to the commercial aspects as has been pointed out, and yes, if they are withdrawing from the market then a buyer should be sort.

It’s starting to sound like the cost of the infrastructure outweighs the sales of LPG.

Now if the Gov’t raised red diesel tax would more people take up LPG? Would manufactures make more LPG only boats? – and I assume the LPG and diesel don’t mix so us stinkpot are left with paying more for our fuel with no other options.


Peter

<hr width=100% size=1>Complete the Consumer Survey <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mssa.org.uk>http://www.mssa.org.uk</A> Marine Service Standards Assistance

 

[MedDreamer]

Its called Fred Drift. nm.

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<hr width=100% size=1>Do you think a Fleming 55 would look out of place on Windermere?

 

[PGD]

Re: Its called Fred Drift. nm.

Yes him again, he does get about a bit. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Complete the Consumer Survey <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mssa.org.uk>http://www.mssa.org.uk</A> Marine Service Standards Assistance

 

[gjgm]

Didnt we go through this some years ago with diesel cars.. big GVMT incentive, lower tax on diesel.. now its a distant memory. The LPG issue has always had two dangerous waters ahead..the viability for Calor (balanced with the reluctance of boaters to convert from petrol), and its dependance on continuing advantageous tax status. Well lesson one, is never back an investment solely on todays tax status... just look at all those tax ruses that blew up.
Then we are off onto the diesel saga again. I d like to hear one watertight argument why leisure boaters in UK should be advantaged by lower taxation on their fuel. People will always want to be out on the water. Maybe if you want to be able to do that in a large power boat that drinks huge quantities of fuel, it is going to be a very big commitment. Luxury problem, as they say...

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[Gordonmc]

I suspect that Calor may be having problems with their partners in forecourt sales of LPG and that is more of an issue than take-up by consumers. Autogas will probably still be freely available from Calor depots if they pull the plug at forecourts.
Having switched to dual-fuel more than a year ago my experience is that the majority of other users are mini-cabs and huge lumps of Range Rovers. Very few others.
The blame for this lies fairly and squarely at the door of No. 11. The tax benefits for "alternative" fuels is negligible, a small reduction in the emmission quotient plus a measly 1% reduction in list price.
The Government is paying lip service to environmental considerations in its taxation regime knowing full well it can't afford for everyone to convert to clean energy and stop paying externionate duties.
Red diesel is bound to go but because the pressure from Brussels means the UK government will resist as long as possible, if only for the farming lobby.
Despite being a beneficiary of red diesel I would rather do without the perk if it means a sensible fuel policy which could address all three imperatives; encourage clean fuel technology, help those who need affordable fuel to survive and stop the nonsense of encouraging use of a particular fuel then hammering those who invest accordingly.

Enough of this... nearly home time.


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[the_wanderer]

Sorry, no reply for LPG but I think the boatyards on the Norfolk Broads will have to think about a new excuse for charging an arm and a leg to boat hirers if the tax is levied on red diesel. They are almost charging road prices now! What will they charge if it is taxed? Or perhaps they will go for a new rip off. Oh yes! Water!!!!


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[oldgit]

Re:Choices

Commercial users could claim back extra cost of fuel via vat return etc, whereas leisure users will have to cough up.
Afraid that it would take a lot more than a hike in fuel costs to get me off the water.
Depends on your priorities ,that second new car, the third foreign holiday or the boat.
Easy choice for me.Maybe not so easy for others.

<hr width=100% size=1>If it aint broke fix it till it is.

 

[davedpc]

When a mate of mine upgraded his boat a few years back, Sealine would not handle it until it was changed back from gas to petrol, even though it was a proffesional.installation. The boat a 328 I think, had been the subject of a ongoing report by,I believe this magazine. The boat was called "MYWAY".

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[sjw]

calor are not the only supplier of LPG our local water ski club runs a LPG boat ,as chairman l have many companys asking if they can supply, many willing to provide incentivies to change such as faster electric pumps etc.I am sure marina operators could easily get new suppliers .

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[Dave_Snelson]

Excellent piece of information - thanks.

<hr width=100% size=1>Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[Jake]

Early day motion - Commons

PBO have been following the LPG argument recently, as David (Solitaire) has written us an excellent feature on his petrol/LPG/diesel conversion on his Fairline 21, due out in our next issue. (Sorry Neale - nicked that one off you!) We've been speaking to Calor, and we can only echo Neale's accurate summary on this forum. Some LPG refuellers haven't shifted a drop all summer. Others have just one or two regular customers. Calor have to sell gas, and the sites cost cash to maintain. Some marinas have even asked Calor to actually remove the tanks, as they could use the space for something else. Calor have to number crunch. It's really as simple as that.

However, on the other debate about diesel, there will be an early day motion in the commons (either today or on Monday) to congratulate the BMF for their 'bold move' in shifting the boat show to it's new venue at ExCel. The MP concerned will be reminding the house that the industry employs - directly and indirectly - some 3.5 million people. That's a lot of income for the exchequer.

From our point of view, it's also a powerful argument for not doing anything to jeopardize that success, just to raise a few more millions from leisure boaters via red diesel. Again, PBO will be keeping a close eye on the red diesel debate, along with other practical motorboating issues (unashamed plug..!!)



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[longjohnsilver]

3.5m in boating industry??

Well not axshully all in boating world but supported by. Seems one hell of a lot to me Jake, must be over 10% of the working population. Where does this stat come from, suspect if the MP uses it he'll be laughed out of court. More like 35,000 surely? But then what's a few naughts between politicians! If they didn't fudge the figures it wouldn't seem right.

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[Breakaway]

Having viewed this forum for a while now, I have just got things working and I can add my comment to the issue of LPG.
After many trials and tribulations, in May of this year I managed to complete the coversion of Breakaway to LPG. So it is with alarm, that i here the availablity of LPG in the Solent may be seroiusly reduced. I add my name to the list of the concerned!

A couple of months ago in MBM letters, someone was calling for action and responses. I replied my email, but no reply. WHO was that/what happed?

<hr width=100% size=1>Malcolm

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Hi - Please do follow this up, especially as Neale Byart is meeting up with Calor to see what their intentions are.

<hr width=100% size=1>Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[pt8]

I, too, see this as the end of LPG. The signs have been there for a long time. As I have said before on this Forum the system worked well but there was not enough outlets elsewhere in the UK (South Coast was well catered for) which was no good for the cruising boat. Also, the Environment Agency were so anti in respect of its use on the Inland Waterways. We felt our crusing grounds to be very limited.

We paid £5,000 for our conversion and did stay with LPG for three years so probably just about broke even on the costings.

Originally we were promised the earth but none of the promises came to fruition. Serious coastal cruising caused us serious problems as we did not have the duration (we carried 406 lts) and the distance between the filling points was not good. If Calor drastically reduce the outlets I am sure this will not help LPG at all and it will eventually die a natural death for marine use.

Its a shame but we are glad we took the decision to change to diesel and we have two nice diesel engines sitting in our garage waiting to be craned in early next year.


Rose


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[hlb]

A sencible choice. So it's got nothing to do with tax or cloak and dagger governments,but all to do with diesel rules on the sea. Rivers as well it seems../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn