About those keels...

Re: Well, this is probably the wrong answer

You appear to have a solidly build classic boat but what would a new one built today cost? Would it sell?

If the answer is expensive and no it would not sell do you think there should be a standard impact test on boats that they all must survive? (similar to cars) or just a general health warning that this boat was not built to sail into rocks!
 
Re: Well, this is probably the wrong answer

The answers of course are "expensive" and "would not sell".

The only practical answer is a health warning, because racers would certainly not want some sort of standard test, and they would I think be right to reject one.

My point really is that people now expect to use boats that are really not suited to shoal water sailing, in shoal waters.

Entering a river with a bar, such as the Deben or the Alde, contact with the bottom is not terribly unusual!

Going aground in a heavy long keel boat, either deep or centreplate, is no big deal unless you hit an offshore bank in bad weather. In a fin keel boat with the sort of scantlings that give good performance it may well be a different story, and it seems that it often is.

Keels that fall off at sea for no accountable reason are another story...
 
Re: seamanlike behaviour

[ QUOTE ]
Strikes me that the biggest problem has nothing to do with the keels. It's the navigators !!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite agree.... I haven't heard of any just falling off, the only stories I've heard of are when they hit them into things.... fancy that, running into a rock and causing damage, you would never have thought it /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Now you can't blame the boatbuilder for their gross error!
 
Yes inevitably there must be a limit to the force of the impact but what limit would you specify.

The normal approach for non at the margin race boats (as I have already said in another thread) is that the keel and supporting structure should be designed for an impact moment of the boat grounding at hull speed if a displacement cruiser unlikely to exceed that, or for an appropriate speed that the boat is otherwise capable of. The impact moment is, of course, also dependant on the time taken for the impact to stop the boat - I have seen 0.25 secs used for that.

This means that keels should not fall off boats as a result of grounding damage.

John
 
The forces of impact are great and the strength to resist them would probably make it a boat thats too expensive to sell. The only way would be to allow some "give" and that "give" would be the equivalent of a cars crumple zone which often sparks off missives on the Lounge. On my tank make "X" there was only a scratch but you should have seen the other car that only cost 25% of mine! The reality is often different from perception.

Many people own and are happy with their Bav's, all of them know that the construction is not as heavy or hand made as many of the Swedish boats.

The reality I think is that there is an underlying envy that people has sucessfully got their boating on the cheap. When one talks of depreciation, while a greater % on AWB's its often less than for a boat 2 or 3x the initial new cost. The difference in cost saves the owner a fortune in interest if on a mortgage or earns money if its left in the bank.

These owners accept it won't take a heavy grounding and hasn't got an encapsulated keel.

I bought a boat thats about 1.5x the cheapest AWB but I don't really think its 1.5 x stronger.

The truth is that the market is building the boats that people want to buy yet many on here seem to infer that they know better than the sucessful manufacturers!
 
[iThe forces of impact are great and the strength to resist them would probably make it a boat thats too expensive to sell.[/i]

Sorry, but I can assure you that is how a properly designed yacht is designed and is not problem at all achieving it. It does make a slightly heavier and slightly more expensive hull - however it is part of the hull and the hull is not a great part of the vessel's total construction cost. The two main forces considered for the keel and structure design is heeled 90 degrees (so greatest moment from gravity) and collision.

But regardless, if you are saying that it is ok to have inadequate strength in that area for the sake of cost savings then that is fine for you but, I suspect, not for most of us. I would also be very surprised if Bavaria would agree with you - I suspect they just got it wrong in the quest for cheapness in the boats that have the family problem and will provide a bit more substantial structure in that area in future.

John
 
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