Abandon Ship Bag for Coast Sailing

[prv]

The life raft would drift away from the stricken yacht very quickly & if one did not cut the connecting line then the jerking on it could rip a lump out of the raft as it rolled in the sea.

In theory the painter should be designed so that it breaks away from the raft without damaging it.

It has to be remembered that someone is bound to be injured so a roll of bandage & piece of lint. Perhaps a roll of duct tape to hold some lint in place or to strap a broken arm to a body would be important. I do not know if that would have the medics on the forum gasping for breath, but it would be all I could think of. A roll of duct tape can be very handy it might also help with a leak in the raft or something simple like holding the flap shut, fixing a tear in ones oilies etc these sort of things can really exaggerate the downside of moral & a simple bodge repair can help a lot

+1 for gaffer tape. I have that plus a roll of PVC tape in my grab bag. Also a couple of small squares of towelling that among other uses could go onto a wound under the gaffer tape as a sort of giant plaster. I tend to think that beyond keeping the blood on the inside where it belongs there's probably not much you can do in the way of first aid in a 4-man liferaft at sea, so I don't have masses of first-aid stuff.

Then some form of signalling distress & a means of sending location. .

+1, most important thing in coastal waters. I have a PLB, a VHF, a GPS so I can state my position in the call, all the boat's flares (as good a place as any to stow them) - a rocket flare has several times the range of a handheld VHF at sea level - a strobe light, a signal mirror, and a space blanket included more as a flag / possible radar-reflector than for warmth (I have TPAs for that).

The life raft should already have knife , flares, water mirror etc but I carry a knife in my pocket as well as a cutter & personal flares on my LJ

Basic yachting rafts generally don't have water packed in them. The knife will be a worthless scrap of pot-metal just sufficient to saw through the painter. I believe Ocean Safety's budget raft doesn't even have a signal mirror. The flares at least should be ok thanks to SOLAS standards, but three hand-flares don't go all that far.

I tend to assume that my basic raft provides a floating tent and not much more, and that I have to bring in the grab-bag anything else I'll want.

Carry some money, small denomination UK & Euros, plus means of personal identification

I don't have any cash in the bag, but I do have a laminated page on the bottom with scans of my passport, debit card, driving license, EHIC, and a list of useful phone numbers. There's a pocket on the outside with a folded-up dry-sack tucked into it, and given time I'd be chucking anything handy into that to augment the pre-stocked bag. As well as any spare clothing lying around, I'd be looking to scoop up the phones, wallets, passports, etc that usually live in a tray next to the chart table.

I have never done a sea survival course so a forumite, who has, will come & tell us all that I am wrong but one lives in hope that one never needs it

I've done the RYA course and a commercial seafarer's course; certainly don't claim to be an expert but I don't disagree with anything in your post. And I hope and expect not to need it either

Pete

 

[thinwater]

I think that the notion that one can swim down & collect items is a bit risky. if one were to be wearing a life jacket i would rather not take it off & going under an upturned hulk that is bouncing in the sea can be dangerous I would have thought.

Given that capsize takes place in seconds and that you are more or less falling or holding on at that time, what do you suggest?

Diving back under to get things is not terribly troubling to me; yes, there are risks, but I am experienced diving and in the surf. I also would not wear a self inflating vest, in part for this sort of contingency; they greatly impeed your ability to self-rescue, for example, to climb over or through railings or even into a dinghy.

Second, most multihull do not carry rafts (dinghies, yes) because they do not sink. If you didn't tie the dingy to the boat with rope you are too dumb to live.

 

[Daydream believer]

Given that capsize takes place in seconds and that you are more or less falling or holding on at that time, what do you suggest?

Diving back under to get things is not terribly troubling to me; yes, there are risks, but I am experienced diving and in the surf. I also would not wear a self inflating vest, in part for this sort of contingency; they greatly impeed your ability to self-rescue, for example, to climb over or through railings or even into a dinghy.

Second, most multihull do not carry rafts (dinghies, yes) because they do not sink. If you didn't tie the dingy to the boat with rope you are too dumb to live.

Well I only expressed an opinion & i suggest that most of those reading this forum would not have the skills that you claim.

I still think that it would be dangerous. I also note that some of the serious offshore single handed mono hulls have access doors in the transoms. I asked the skipper of one such yacht what it was for & explained that it was an escape hatch & that it was possible to enter via the hatch as some had actually survived in an upturned hull.
So if it was so easy to swim under the guard rails & find one's way back in I wonder why such able & fit sailors actually need such an item. Perhaps the experiences of their fraternity do not feel swimming underneath is as easy as you might suggest

As for tying on _ I was referring to a life raft, not a dinghy & a liferaft made of fabric is slightly weaker than the GRP or wood of a dinghy. Now whilst some have survived for extended periods in a dinghy ( as in "Survive the Savage Sea") we are talking about coastal calamities not blue water & somehow I would not want to be swimming around trying to get into a dinghy that wants to tip over every time I try to get into it. I suggest that you try falling in next time you row out to a mooring. If you have not done so, a few forumites can relay their experiences.

 

[thinwater]

Well I only expressed an opinion & i suggest that most of those reading this forum would not have the skills that you claim.

I still think that it would be dangerous. I also note that some of the serious offshore single handed mono hulls have access doors in the transoms. I asked the skipper of one such yacht what it was for & explained that it was an escape hatch & that it was possible to enter via the hatch as some had actually survived in an upturned hull.
So if it was so easy to swim under the guard rails & find one's way back in I wonder why such able & fit sailors actually need such an item. Perhaps the experiences of their fraternity do not feel swimming underneath is as easy as you might suggest

As for tying on _ I was referring to a life raft, not a dinghy & a liferaft made of fabric is slightly weaker than the GRP or wood of a dinghy. Now whilst some have survived for extended periods in a dinghy ( as in "Survive the Savage Sea") we are talking about coastal calamities not blue water & somehow I would not want to be swimming around trying to get into a dinghy that wants to tip over every time I try to get into it. I suggest that you try falling in next time you row out to a mooring. If you have not done so, a few forumites can relay their experiences.

I started to respond, but then decided we are drifting far off topic. Suffice to say that smaller boats do not have escape hatches, so the discussion is academic, and lacking suggestions, solutions will be boat-specific. I actually expected someone to suggest that the grab bag should be secured on deck, perhaps near the transom, where it would be reasonable to recover if inverted. For example, life rafts on multihulls, when carried at all, are mounted on the transom for this reason (if it inflates under an inverted boat it's not going to be of much use).

Because this aspect is very different for small multihulls (vs monohulls and larger multihulls), and my impression is that none of the respondents have small multihull experience, let's just get back to the original thread--coastal sailing.
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What is the most practical grab-bag solution for the coastal sailor on a smaller boat? My premise was and is that the need may be well served by bags we already carry, with just a little attention to what they contain and that they will float for a short time. Implicit in this is the understanding that it need only keep you well over night or perhaps a little longer.

 

[Uricanejack]

1. The thread started with a coastal sailing focus, so the big raft is sort of outside the scope, but not entirely.
2. The "AFAIK" description of the raft supplies is a little troubling. With emergency gear, you want to know for certain. I guess you'll be checking on that.

And this is why I was thinking that with a little thought and preparation, a typical day-bag be pretty useful, filling the gap between the minimal bit of nothing that is typically in a raft and a full-on mid-ocean grab bag. Very, very few of us cross oceans, and if we do, we can could the crossings on a few fingers.

So what do you intend to abandon to if you don’t have a raft. If nothing to abandon to what’s the point of a grab bag

 

[thinwater]

So what do you intend to abandon to if you don’t have a raft. If nothing to abandon to what’s the point of a grab bag

a. In the case of a capsized boat, the boat will still be there.
b. We have assumed the boat will have a dinghy or tender of some type. However, unlike a packaged raft, which has some stores, a dinghy generally would not. This was in the first post.

I also did not say or imply there could not be a raft, only that it would probably not be large or well-equipped. That is what I said.

 

[Daydream believer]

I have suggested that the chances of getting into a dinghy if upturned ( unless it was an inflated inflatable dinghy which is a different animal) is going to be pretty low especially in the conditions likely to capsize a boat (unless lost keel in benign conditions). I agree that it depends on the dinghy but most dinghies are not bought with the expectations of sea survival in mind. They may be strapped on deck or on davits & will almost certainly be difficult to release & sod's law dictates that they will be inverted even if one could get to them. Imagine trying to get a buoyant dingy from off the cabin roof of an upturned craft . Untie the ropes, then get it to sink enough to get it under the rails which will be bobbing up & down. It will get stuck in the side deck for sure.
On davits it would be much easier but it would still be inverted & have to be released. If it was an inflatable on deck one would never get it past the rails (Unless one had a netting foredeck which could be cut away)
Of course if you are superman !!!!

 

[Phildorset]

Suffice to say that smaller boats do not have escape hatches
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...g-for-Coast-Sailing/page3#C7O5W6fvzXAErTrl.99

I think the poster may have meant the Pogo 6.5 Mini Transat boats... they do... and you don't get much smaller crossing the oceans.

 

[thinwater]

I have suggested that the chances of getting into a dinghy if upturned ( unless it was an inflated inflatable dinghy which is a different animal) is going to be pretty low especially in the conditions likely to capsize a boat (unless lost keel in benign conditions). I agree that it depends on the dinghy but most dinghies are not bought with the expectations of sea survival in mind. They may be strapped on deck or on davits & will almost certainly be difficult to release & sod's law dictates that they will be inverted even if one could get to them. Imagine trying to get a buoyant dingy from off the cabin roof of an upturned craft . Untie the ropes, then get it to sink enough to get it under the rails which will be bobbing up & down. It will get stuck in the side deck for sure.
On davits it would be much easier but it would still be inverted & have to be released. If it was an inflatable on deck one would never get it past the rails (Unless one had a netting foredeck which could be cut away)
Of course if you are superman !!!!

I know I can get back into a kayak in moderate whitewater, having done it. I don't think I want or need a dinghy I cannot right and re-enter.

 

[Daydream believer]

I know I can get back into a kayak in moderate whitewater, having done it. I don't think I want or need a dinghy I cannot right and re-enter.

Eskimo roll in a kayak is not quite the same as righting a dinghy is it??

 

[Uricanejack]

a. In the case of a capsized boat, the boat will still be there.
b. We have assumed the boat will have a dinghy or tender of some type. However, unlike a packaged raft, which has some stores, a dinghy generally would not. This was in the first post.

I also did not say or imply there could not be a raft, only that it would probably not be large or well-equipped. That is what I said.

ok raft or dingy.

Dinghy? Mine inflated? Yes towed? Probably. Good enough? Possibly not? Why
It is rated as a three person dinghy.
I have a 7 berths theoretically.
Potentially care of 5

So who doesn’t get a seat?

So I chose to get a 6 person raft. To avoid drawing lots. Is that large or just the appropriate size for the boat? Might even be considered a bit to small in case I ever take 6 people with me.
Choice of raft include different levels of kit. I chose the one with kit because having to rely on remembering to bring a grab bag seamed silly compared to raft with emergency gear in it.

Which doesn’t mean having a grab bag with extra is not a good idea. It probably is.

I puttered around the SGI and San Jauns for many years without a raft and a times without even a Dinghy:
Neither of which are required.
I got the raft when I sailed up the west coast from Oregon. I seamed like a good idea at the time and I thought it was the minimum sensible size and gear for my boat and crew in our usual haunts. Still have it.

Back to grab bag.
Hand held VHF would be at the top of my list along with cellphones
First aid kit. Boat has quite a nice one. The one I the raft will do in a pinch.
Something happens to the boat thier is a good chance something may happen to one of the crew.
Good flashlight with spare dry battery.
Heliograph or small compact mirror. Flashlight for night mirror for day.
Blankets of some kind. It might be summer or it might be cold out.
Some kind of lightweight water wind proof gear.

My goals keep everyone on the boat warm enough and dry if possible. Till help arrives and be able to signal or make us visible to a searcher.

I don’t have PLB or EPIRB but I do have some water activated emergency lights actually for life jackets but I have a couple extra.

 

[thinwater]

Eskimo roll in a kayak is not quite the same as righting a dinghy is it??

I did not say roll, I said "get back in," as in to re-enter from the water. Roll is certainly different. I was out of the kayak, had to right it over while swimming next to it, and then worm back in (not a sit-on kayak--that's very easy). I would not want a dinghy I could not re-enter from the water. It would not suit my purposes.

I also wonder how many people have practice this. I would not have been able to do that without practice. It is one of the first things you must learn with any small boat.