A suitable motor boat ?

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dawnsall

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I'm looking for my first motor boat. At present we have a 41ft ocean going grp yacht which we have sailed extensively. What we are now looking for is a boat to cruise the European river and canal network but with the ability to do coastal and cross channel work as well. Fast is not important, long term economical cruising is. I'm thinking of a well built Dutch displacement steel cruiser with 2 engines around 80 to 100 hp, 42ft long ish 20 to 30 yrs old. Would anybody with experience of this type of boat and cruising be able to give me some pointers as to whether my thinking is going in the right direction as I've never been to sea on a boat like this. Some of my concerns are how they handle (safe) in a sea, the longevity of an older steel boat and engines, condensation if staying on board in the winter. Any knowledgeable experience appreciated.
 
Linseen and Broom come to mind. The Broom Monarch was a classic design with massive internal space. Freeboard a little high.
 
had much the same brief myself a few years back and posted similar Q on here!
I was persuaded against the dutch steels because of reputed poor seakeeping in anything other than force 3-4. Considered very rolly and seasick inducing by most responders although to this day I have stll not been to sea on one myself. I ended up with an Atlantic 38 with twin 225 diesels which has served us well both at sea and through the French canals to the med although she is probably happier in salt water. All boats are a compromise I guess and when on the inland waterways I still hanker after a Dutch steel but on a rough day at sea glad I have what I have!
 
Compromise

Coastal and inland are difficult to reconcile and I admit to being the wrong person, in many ways, to advise, but I have just made my choice for the same set of criteria, except age.
We bought a Broom Ocean 38. OK, I know. Wrong choice, but a gorgeous boat!!
I think the important thing is to decide which aspect is most important to your needs. Any well found boat of 42 feet can comfortably make coastal passages so long as you have the time to await the right conditions. On that basis, if inland rivers and EU canals are primary, then I would choose Dutch steel with single engine around 100hp+. Twins can be problematic in some of the smaller, shallower French canals and rivers. Dutch boats usually have folding screens and can achieve an airdraft around 2.6metres, which opens up more waterways. Try and aim for around 1m draft, too.
As for age, I would advise as new as you can get and a named brand (Linssen, Pedro, etc) as earlier Dutch steel boats did not benefit from more modern epoxy paints, which are more effective at rust prevention.
www.elburgyachting.nl I can recommend. Talk to them. There are hundreds of Dutch steel boats that never make it to the UK market, that will be very acceptable if you know the market. Elburg do.
Also www.botentekoop.nl
The other alternative is a British displacement boat.
 
Lot of ill-informed generalisations about sea-keeping and unless you are looking for something of 30 years or older then epoxy coatings should be the norm.

PM sent - maybe twice!
 
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Budget?

I thought that perhaps €230k was a shade over budget?
Agree with Blueglass re PCUK. Why pm? Let's all benefit.
Most boats have their limitations as to sea conditions, regardless of constuction material.
A lot of the Dutch steel boats are built to Cat C for the very good reason that they will be used very largely on inland rivers and canals, for which they are idealy suited. Look underneath and you can see that thay will not be the best at sea. Having said that, if you choose your conditions there should be no trouble at all.
We looked at a Sturier 400OC - gorgeous - that is built to Cat A and can handle anything the sea can throw.
So horses for courses.
 
Its a mistake to lump all Dutch steel cruisers together in terms of seaworthiness just because they have the same characteristic 'look'. I've had three of them. I started with this

FalconatAlkmaar.jpg

Just under 15 metres, 25 tonnes, 2 huge keels, 2 x 200hp, bit wet in wild water but would punch its way through anything. The guy who bought it said he did so because he never wanted to be held up by the weather again (bit ambitious perhaps but then....)

Then moved on to this

108.jpg


13 metre, 13 tonnes, single 120hp motor. Lovely boat but couldn't punch its way out of a paper bag. Rolled like a pig. I once had to travel nearly the whole length of the Ijsselmeer to keep the sea on the nose and on the stern coming back, rather than try and head straight across in a beam sea.

I now have yet a third Dutch steel boat which is for sale. But from the OPs original description, its not the boat for him. Pity that :):)
 
Dutch boats and rolling?

Some of the cheaper dutch boats do roll but they are not intended for sea usage just inland cruising. Pay your money and take your chice.

Other Dutch yards have very good sea keeeping hulls on their boats, often RCD B or even A.

Many have flooper stoppers as well.
 
pheran said:
Its a mistake to lump all Dutch steel cruisers together in terms of seaworthiness just because they have the same characteristic 'look'. I've had three of them. I started with this

Just under 15 metres, 25 tonnes, 2 huge keels, 2 x 200hp, bit wet in wild water but would punch its way through anything. The guy who bought it said he did so because he never wanted to be held up by the weather again (bit ambitious perhaps but then....)

Then moved on to this

13 metre, 13 tonnes, single 120hp motor. Lovely boat but couldn't punch its way out of a paper bag. Rolled like a pig. I once had to travel nearly the whole length of the Ijsselmeer to keep the sea on the nose and on the stern coming back, rather than try and head straight across in a beam sea.
Click to expand...

Interesting, why was boat 1 that much better than boat 2?
They look very similar?
 
I'll second jimg on that one too. What was the difference between the 2 boats that made them so different at sea other than, of course, boat 1 presumably has a SD or planing hull.
On a more general note, I am confused about Dutch steel boats generally and their seaworthiness or, let's say, rather than seaworthiness their ability to cruise comfortably in marginal sea conditions. We happened to go to the Dusseldorf boat show and saw many Dutch steel boats. Many are obviously aimed at the inland boating market simply by virtue of the fact that they have relatively low power but some and I'm thinking about the likes of bigger Linnsens, Privateers, bigger Boarnstreams and others, seem to be aimed at the bluewater cruising market and have Cat A marking to prove it. The trouble is that I can't see any fundamental differences between the steel boats aimed at the inland market and those aimed at the bluewater market in terms of hull design. Has anyone got any views or comments on this?
 
I grew up with several Dutch steel cruisers around the 40ft mark and we did very similar cruising, generally, Thames based followed by the odd coastal passage to the European waterways. We struggled with seakeeping, never felt unsafe but had to reduce speed so significantly in head seas we hardly made progress and in my experience the roll in a beam sea was significant.

If I were looking for a 20 to 30 year old motorboat to do this type of cruising i'd buy a Broom 39 Monarch which was always desirable or her bigger sister the Ocean 42. Id watch out for big old diesels that trot up and down rivers at tickover speed for years on end, might be a little smokey

Just my opinion
 
dawnsall said:
Erm. What's a flooper stopper?

If a boat had 3/4 length box section twin keels would it make it less rolly?
Click to expand...



It would if they were touching the bottom,

On a more serious note they would help, but the downside is the drag and loss of ability to get close to the bank in shallow water.
 
jimg said:
Interesting, why was boat 1 that much better than boat 2?
They look very similar?
Click to expand...
So they do. But as I said above 'Its a mistake to lump all Dutch steel cruisers together in terms of seaworthiness just because they have the same characteristic 'look'.'

The boats had different underwater shapes. Boat 1, a Valk, was designed for open water cruising and was more of a SD profile, deep V entry and a flattish stern. Despite its weight, opening the throttles would cause the bow to rise significantly. It also carried a fair bit of ballast aft, probably in excess of 3 tonnes, I would guess. What part the keels played in its seaworthiness I'm not sure

Rudders.jpg


Those are 22" props so you can see the size of the keels (and the rudders!)

Boat 2, a Kok, was a very much flatter underwater shape and was definitely happier in smoother water. As I said, it rolled like a bath-tub. At least the Valk had its bath on the inside!!

bathroom.jpg


:):)
 
Thanks for that, I guessed it must have been down to different hull designs. As you imply to the untrained eye, theyall can seem the same!!

I guess most of us are used to the topsides changing dramatically for different hulll forms.
You are very unlikely to get confused by a UK designed boat with a displacement hull and one with a deep vee.
 
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