A salutary "should have known better" note

[duncan99210]

Ah the French... a good few years back, we visited Port-Vendres in southern France. The port captain was gracious and helpful but insisted on charging us for a 12m boat. This despite the fact that the insurance and SSR describing her as 11.95m and the makers fixing her length at 11.97m. His response, charmingly delivered, was that he knew how long Bavaria 38s are: they are 12m. No further discussion, paid a couple of euros per day more.
The lesson to the OP and others is to make sure things match and that you carry original documents where possible. Makes life somewhat simpler but even when you do, don’t bank on it being a guarantee against hassle.

 

[[3889]]

Though I have the original SSR on board I have, during the 6 boardings in France and Spain in the last 3 years, always had copies on my phone accepted. Wonder what's going on for that to change?:nonchalance:
As for the marina bill ,(I'm berthed with the same company though happily in the middle of a price band) does it not breach some sort of data protection rules for the Douane to reveal this matter to a 3rd party?

 

[Mistroma]

You missed an opportunity to exercise your French language skills to explain - "“length” is as defined in the Merchant Shipping (Tonnage) Regulations 1997 (SI 1997/1510), which is: the greater distance of the following distances – (a) the distance between the fore side of the stem and the axis of the rudder stock; or (b) 96 per cent of the distance between the fore side of the stem and the aft side of the stern."
A copy of https://assets.publishing.service.g.../268868/mgn489-amendment-pleasure-vessels.pdf translated into French might help!
Personally, I find "Non, je ne suis pas Anglais, je suis Ecossais" tends to calm French bureaucracy wonderfully.

Seemed to work many years ago. We were just about to leave Camaret-Sur-Mer when a large customs vessel arrived and deployed a couple of RIBs. One headed for the pontoons and the other patrolled the entrance. Casting off seemed to be a bad idea as they'd assume I had something to hide. I walked up to the most senior person and explained in French that we were just about to leave and asked if there would be a big delay. He looked at our stern and asked if I was from the Scottish boat. He grinned when I said yes and replied no problem, we have all these English boats to check thoroughly, leave immediately if you wish. We left and even got a friendly wave from the bridge of the larger boat.

Of course it might just have been the result of my attempt to speak French instead of speaking loudly in English.

 

[Poignard]

Worth re-registering my boat in a Scottish port then!,

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Worth re-registering my boat in a Scottish port then!,

Only if you fancy wearing a skirt and a ginger wig.

 

[mainsail1]

I will know better than to return to France next year if this petty example of officialdom is to be expected. They have forgotten about give and take for the common good. Their good.

 

[markhomer]

You all have missed one important point , the op realised he had mistaken his rated length for irc rating to be the same as an acceptable overall length for Marina dues etc , irc rated length is a performance factor and the overall length of the moulded hull without fittings , bow sprits bumpkins , pulpits ,pushpins , gudgeons , pintles , rudders etc , fyi

 

[Poignard]

Only if you fancy wearing a skirt and a ginger wig.

Hoots Mon!
Sounds like a dream come true.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

You have to feel for officialdom , they have quotas and targets just like the rest of us.

The OP can have the satisfaction of knowing something good will come out of it.

 

[SimonFa]

I thought that it was fairly well known that when 'going foreign' copies were not acceptable.
Having said that, I think it would be quite difficult for the average official to spot a copy done by anyone who is reasonably adept with a photoshopper and has a decent (laser) printer.
Even more so when docs are sent electronically as pdf for home printing.

Same goes if you're driving. We've just returned from a week in Germany in our motorhome and all the travel websites make it quite clear that only originals are acceptable, esp logbook.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I thought that it was fairly well known that when 'going foreign' copies were not acceptable.
Having said that, I think it would be quite difficult for the average official to spot a copy done by anyone who is reasonably adept with a photoshopper and has a decent (laser) printer.
Even more so when docs are sent electronically as pdf for home printing.

A lot of documents these days incorporate security devices such as holographic panels - even my ICC does! They also often incorporate printing below the resolution of common copying devices (e.g. banknotes). The point of such devices is that they can't be copied by any widely available method. That's also why lamination is sometimes banned - it destroys a security device (I imagine it wouldn't do a holographic panel much good).

 

[[70521]]

Suddenly visiting france has dropped a couple of positions on my 'places to visit' list.

You will miss some great sailing and wonderful people. I find a pan celtic courtesy flag opens many doors, and the ability to say "I am Scottish".

 

[Kukri]

Let's not get too silly about all this.

The Master of a merchant ship carries around an A4 plastic pocket document wallet about an inch and a half thick full of his ship's "trading certificates" starting with the the Certificate of Registry and continuing via the Evidence of Compulsory Insurance in respect of oil pollution, wreck removal, crew repatriation etc and the Cargo Gear Certificates etc to the De-Rat Certificate. Some of these are Originals and some exist only as .pdfs and are printed out on board to keep the Port State Control folks happy.

Since this is all too silly for words, there is a move to stop issuing paper certificates and to hold the lot on servers.

The UK MCA are particularly keen on this. In a couple of years - no more "ship's papers".

 

[RichardS]

The UK MCA are particularly keen on this. In a couple of years - no more "ship's papers".

Let's just hope that someone tells the French jobsworths about this. :ambivalence:

Richard

 

[capnsensible]

Let's not get too silly about all this.

The Master of a merchant ship carries around an A4 plastic pocket document wallet about an inch and a half thick full of his ship's "trading certificates" starting with the the Certificate of Registry and continuing via the Evidence of Compulsory Insurance in respect of oil pollution, wreck removal, crew repatriation etc and the Cargo Gear Certificates etc to the De-Rat Certificate. Some of these are Originals and some exist only as .pdfs and are printed out on board to keep the Port State Control folks happy.

Since this is all too silly for words, there is a move to stop issuing paper certificates and to hold the lot on servers.

The UK MCA are particularly keen on this. In a couple of years - no more "ship's papers".

Masters of Ships use Agents. Leisure sailors by and large dont. You are facing the Officials yourselves.

Ive been in two places where using an Agent was strongly advised to avoid getting mugged/ beaten whilst spending hours attempting to clear in/out around a number of widespread offices in badlands.

 

[newtothis]

Let's not get too silly about all this.

The Master of a merchant ship carries around an A4 plastic pocket document wallet about an inch and a half thick full of his ship's "trading certificates" starting with the the Certificate of Registry and continuing via the Evidence of Compulsory Insurance in respect of oil pollution, wreck removal, crew repatriation etc and the Cargo Gear Certificates etc to the De-Rat Certificate. Some of these are Originals and some exist only as .pdfs and are printed out on board to keep the Port State Control folks happy.

Since this is all too silly for words, there is a move to stop issuing paper certificates and to hold the lot on servers.

The UK MCA are particularly keen on this. In a couple of years - no more "ship's papers".

Singapore announced just today a blockchain-based ship registry trial. As commercial maritime digitises, recreational maritime will no doubt follow, eventually.

 

[doug748]

You will miss some great sailing and wonderful people. I find a pan celtic courtesy flag opens many doors, and the ability to say "I am Scottish".

Does it work in England?

 

[[3889]]

You will miss some great sailing and wonderful people. I find a pan celtic courtesy flag opens many doors, and the ability to say "I am Scottish".

One of these at the port spreader also seems to help.

 

[Poignard]

One of these at the port spreader also seems to help.

View attachment 80986

I have never had any trouble with officials in France (or the UK). I put it down to having a classic yacht.

But I will order an EU courtesy flag for next year; if only to annoy any Brexit gammons I have the misfortune to encounter. Fortunately they seem to be rare beasts in Southern Brittany.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Singapore announced just today a blockchain-based ship registry trial. As commercial maritime digitises, recreational maritime will no doubt follow, eventually.

Sounds like someone chasing the latest buzzword! "Blockchain" is the latest snake oil in the IT world - beyond its origins in Bitcoins, I don't think there's a single verified use of it that demonstrates advantages over more conventional technology. There are enormous problems in updates and propagation of change through a Blockchain; the thing is designed to be difficult to change!

I'm a confirmed reader of The Register, which tends to keep your feet firmly on the ground when looking at new IT technologies. It's by-line is "Biting the hand that feeds IT".