A salutary "should have known better" note

Lightwave395

Lightwave395

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Whilst in Crouesty recently the Douane decided to swoop through the marina and arrived at my boat asking to see my paperwork. I produced my proof of ownership, home port and insurance details plus a copy of my SSR registration. "Mais Monsieur, nous devons voir l'original, une copie est inacceptable" came the stern reply followed by " pourquoi la copie d'enregistrement SSR dit 11,99 mètres et l'assurance dit 12,04 mètres ?" which to my chagrin I'd never noticed.
I kept a copy of the SSR certificate onboard as my new original version was no longer encapsulated so I though it was best kept at home. Two things followed, I was fined 150 euros and then a week later had an invoice from Compagnie des portes du Morbihan for the difference between the up to 12M berthing fee and the next level up, promptly followed by two new Passport Escales cards reflecting the changes.

My endorsed IRC cert says 11.99 M LOA which is where I took it from, builder says 12.04 M

I should have known better

:ambivalence:
 
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I can understand the difference in LOA resulting in marina charges .... I suppose that is rough justice, but the fine for the SSR is worthy of Gestapo/Stassi tactics. :ambivalence:

My SSR is a copy which I have laminated myself. It is impossible to distinguish it from the original supplied by the MCA, or whoever it is who issues them (it's not important).

If you contact the MCA and ask why the SSR is no longer laminated, they will tell you to get it laminated yourself.

It seems that self-lamination is definitely the way forward. :)

Richard
 
RichardS said:
I can understand the difference in LOA resulting in marina charges .... I suppose that is rough justice, but the fine for the SSR is worthy of Gestapo/Stassi tactics. :ambivalence:

My SSR is a copy which I have laminated myself. It is impossible to distinguish it from the original supplied by the MCA, or whoever it is who issues them (it's not important).

If you contact the MCA and ask why the SSR is no longer laminated, they will tell you to get it laminated yourself.

It seems that self-lamination is definitely the way forward. :)

Richard
Click to expand...

There are documents that you must NOT encapsulate. British citizenship certificates, for one - my wife's came with a letter that emphasized that it would not be valid if it was encapsulated! I'd be wary of encapsulating a certificate, especially if it has security features like holograms.
 
What you could do is is grab a zip lock bag and shove it in along with a piece of thick card behind it. That you get water proof and they can remove it for examination.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
There are documents that you must NOT encapsulate. British citizenship certificates, for one - my wife's came with a letter that emphasized that it would not be valid if it was encapsulated! I'd be wary of encapsulating a certificate, especially if it has security features like holograms.
Click to expand...

The Portuguese won't accept anything but originals in most cases. Met a guy up the Guadiana a few years ago whose boat had been impounded until he could produce his proper SSR certificate. He had copied the old one not yet quite expired and posted it for renewal. PM wouldn't accept the copy, he had to wait there for the new one to arrive.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
There are documents that you must NOT encapsulate. British citizenship certificates, for one - my wife's came with a letter that emphasized that it would not be valid if it was encapsulated! I'd be wary of encapsulating a certificate, especially if it has security features like holograms.
Click to expand...

Indeed. My Spanish Residency card becomes illegal if laminated.

But I will admit to not reading french so Im only guessing at what the OP had a problem with?
 
AntarcticPilot said:
There are documents that you must NOT encapsulate. British citizenship certificates, for one - my wife's came with a letter that emphasized that it would not be valid if it was encapsulated! I'd be wary of encapsulating a certificate, especially if it has security features like holograms.
Click to expand...

But the issuing authority for the SSR tells you that it is fine to get it laminated, like it used to be. :confused:

Richard
 
capnsensible said:
But I will admit to not reading french so Im only guessing at what the OP had a problem with?
Click to expand...

I’m sure even a non French speaker can make a pretty sound guess at “une copie est inacceptable” :p

My SSR is laminated; honestly can’t remember if it came that way or if I laminated it myself because they used to come that way. I haven’t laminated any other documents though - the “Ship’s Papers” live in a faux-leather folder with plastic sleeves for pages, the kind of thing you might find being used for a menu in a restaurant trying to seem fancier than it really is. That seems sufficient against any normal dampness I might expect to encounter below decks.

Pete
 
I happen to know that the decision to stop laminating British Certificates of Registration was taken purely as a cost saving measure by a Head of the UK Register (Doug Barrow) who is no longer in that post.

I bought ‘Kukri’ from Her Majesty’s Government who in their infinite wisdom decided that her Register Length is 13.7 metres. It’s actually 16.7 metres. Those familiar with MCA regulations will spot the ‘dodge’ (to avoid fire extinguisher and safety equipment rules - which she complies with anyway) but I don’t look forward to trying to explain this and will be getting her measured anew...
 
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Lightwave395 said:
Whilst in Crouesty recently the Douane decided to swoop through the marina and arrived at my boat asking to see my paperwork. I produced my proof of ownership, home port and insurance details plus a copy of my SSR registration. "Mais Monsieur, nous devons voir l'original, une copie est inacceptable" came the stern reply followed by " pourquoi la copie d'enregistrement SSR dit 11,99 mètres et l'assurance dit 12,04 mètres ?" which to my chagrin I'd never noticed.
I kept a copy of the SSR certificate onboard as my new original version was no longer encapsulated so I though it was best kept at home. Two things followed, I was fined 150 euros and then a week later had an invoice from Compagnie des portes du Morbihan for the difference between the up to 12M berthing fee and the next level up, promptly followed by two new Passport Escales cards reflecting the changes.

My endorsed IRC cert says 11.99 M LOA which is where I took it from, builder says 12.04 M

I should have known better

:ambivalence:
Click to expand...


There have been cut-throat arguments on these pages with correspondents claiming that no documents at all were required for Europe and that fines were impossible, illegal or a figment of imagination.

A lot of stuff, like insurance, is just a print out anyway, my company dish it out online.
I was told that the one original document that should no be carried on board is the Bill of Sale, because it can not be replaced. Dunno if that makes sense.
 
doug748 said:
There have been cut-throat arguments on these pages with correspondents claiming that no documents at all were required for Europe and that fines were impossible, illegal or a figment of imagination.

A lot of stuff, like insurance, is just a print out anyway, my company dish it out online.
I was told that the one original document that should no be carried on board is the Bill of Sale, because it can not be replaced. Dunno if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

Hoh boy, that's a trigger sentence if I ever saw one.

If you can't or don't want to keep originals on board, you can also get a notarized copy. They can try fining you for that, but that's appeal-able and winable.
 
I thought that it was fairly well known that when 'going foreign' copies were not acceptable.
Having said that, I think it would be quite difficult for the average official to spot a copy done by anyone who is reasonably adept with a photoshopper and has a decent (laser) printer.
Even more so when docs are sent electronically as pdf for home printing.
 
prv said:
I’m sure even a non French speaker can make a pretty sound guess at “une copie est inacceptable” :p

My SSR is laminated; honestly can’t remember if it came that way or if I laminated it myself because they used to come that way. I haven’t laminated any other documents though - the “Ship’s Papers” live in a faux-leather folder with plastic sleeves for pages, the kind of thing you might find being used for a menu in a restaurant trying to seem fancier than it really is. That seems sufficient against any normal dampness I might expect to encounter below decks.

Pete
Click to expand...

Like I said, a guess. Was the copy a problem, theres some stuff about the length of the boat too. So ......:rolleyes:

anyways Im also guessing that some of you blokes havent been places where officials are quite arsey and the thought of 'appeal' and 'I know my rights' is laughable.

I watched a guy in front om me in an immigration queue in Antigua once get kicked out of the territory after he tried the old 'you cant tell me what to do' argument.

All I can suggest is that in your travels, find out from others what the local procedures and regulations are. And stick to them like you are glued. Unless of course, you enjoy being unhappy.......
 
You missed an opportunity to exercise your French language skills to explain - "“length” is as defined in the Merchant Shipping (Tonnage) Regulations 1997 (SI 1997/1510), which is: the greater distance of the following distances – (a) the distance between the fore side of the stem and the axis of the rudder stock; or (b) 96 per cent of the distance between the fore side of the stem and the aft side of the stern."
A copy of https://assets.publishing.service.g.../268868/mgn489-amendment-pleasure-vessels.pdf translated into French might help!
Personally, I find "Non, je ne suis pas Anglais, je suis Ecossais" tends to calm French bureaucracy wonderfully.
 
awol said:
You missed an opportunity to exercise your French language skills to explain - "“length” is as defined in the Merchant Shipping (Tonnage) Regulations 1997 (SI 1997/1510), which is: the greater distance of the following distances – (a) the distance between the fore side of the stem and the axis of the rudder stock; or (b) 96 per cent of the distance between the fore side of the stem and the aft side of the stern."
A copy of https://assets.publishing.service.g.../268868/mgn489-amendment-pleasure-vessels.pdf translated into French might help!
Personally, I find "Non, je ne suis pas Anglais, je suis Ecossais" tends to calm French bureaucracy wonderfully.
Click to expand...

Don't think my French will run to that argument yet !
I'm still learning some of the quirkier French boat and boatyard terms having only been based there from the start of this year, I must add that the "boarding party" were quite friendly and made themselves comfortable whilst we went through the motions etc, even accepted the offer of coffee, which they drank whilst I went off to the cashpoint to which they directed me. It must have been my paranoia that felt they sat in a position that ensured I could see their sidearms...
 
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