Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
PLUS four or PLUS eight?
I had young kids so it was a 4 + 4 actually
Although they preferred mummies volvo -- kids have no appreciation at that age
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"...a Porsche and a Hallberg-Rassy...."
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I had young kids so it was a 4 + 4 actually
Although they preferred mummies volvo -- kids have no appreciation at that age
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see if the HR becomes an appreciating classic as has the the Puma. Though produced in Germany, the latter only really caught on in the UK.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
No. The car equivalent of a Swan would be a Ferrari. Possibly a Lambo though I think they are a bit chavvy.
Porkers are ten a penny. Every other estate agent has one. You can buy an older 911 for less than 20k. Definitely HR if that.
And would you really put X yachts and Swan in the same bracket?
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
But a Ferrari or Lambo is a toy. Admittedly a very expensive and beautifully crafted toy. Its not the thoroughbred workhorse that a HR is. The HR is a go anywhere and look after you boat that's beautifully built. Although the Ferrari/Lambo is a beautifully built car it needs a tame mechanic to keep it going half the time. (From various acquaintances tales of woe...)
The Ferrari is more equivalent to an Open 60 or racing multihull. Fantastically engineered, fast, and not very practical for every day use.
The HR can sail you round the world. No-one thinks of driving a Ferrari round the world.
pvb
Well-Known Member
As far as Ferraris are concerned, that's a bit of an old wives' tale. With routine servicing, they are very reliable. Still not exactly an ideal car for a trip to the supermarket, but certainly reliable.
dom
Well-Known Member
True, but the older ones can be hanger queens. A friend of mine had an F40 and I think that cost £13k (possibly a back to Italy job) every 3 thousand miles. On the other hand nobody in their right minds would run up the clock on the classics.
pvb
Well-Known Member
High mileage use isn't ideal! We had 3 of them over 10 years in the 80s/90s, and used them fairly well - we did a 10-day trip in one back to the factory in Maranello, and my wife even used to take one of them to school on odd occasions. No breakdowns. Sensibly-priced servicing if you use a specialist, rather than a franchised dealership.
dom
Well-Known Member
Ahh the end of the pre-driver-aid, track-sorted lines - pure unadulterated driving magic :encouragement:
pvb
Well-Known Member
And the sound! The Mont Blanc tunnel was orgasmic!
Bosun Higgs
N/A
True. So maybe the equivalent of an HR is a Landcruiser.
Skylark
Well-Known Member
I had an old Guards Red Porche when in my 30s. It was a lot of fun. Now more conservative I've been faithful to the Audi diesel brand for the last 20+ years.
Like many, I revered the HR brand as a quality piece of work but that's changed as I've recently experienced a 700M passage in one. Down below the dark wood was quite claustrophobic. The many different floor levels were a trip hazard, especially at night in a lively sea. The galley had overhead cupboards strategically placed to hit your he's upon. The cabin door handles were also cleverly designed to consistently trap your fingers when opening closing.
It didn't sail as briskly as I expected it to and, being centre cockpit, it didn't seem to make good use of space. It was big boat, a lot bigger than my Bendytoy 41 buy my boat feels bigger, especially with its big fat ar se!
Have I now committed heresy?
Like many, I revered the HR brand as a quality piece of work but that's changed as I've recently experienced a 700M passage in one. Down below the dark wood was quite claustrophobic. The many different floor levels were a trip hazard, especially at night in a lively sea. The galley had overhead cupboards strategically placed to hit your he's upon. The cabin door handles were also cleverly designed to consistently trap your fingers when opening closing.
It didn't sail as briskly as I expected it to and, being centre cockpit, it didn't seem to make good use of space. It was big boat, a lot bigger than my Bendytoy 41 buy my boat feels bigger, especially with its big fat ar se!
Have I now committed heresy?
dom
Well-Known Member
I would say yes, definitely. Your post is devoid of personal biases, prejudice and blind belief. No surprise that in the in the end you fall into the trap of letting the observable realities cloud the deep truths knowable only to the chosen few.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
I have limited experience of the newer HRs, and even less of the large ones, but being well designed for use at sea used to be one of their virtues. My 34 is very easy to get around and there are almost no injury hazards. I don't know if they have changed the locker catches but the traditional ones are much-loved by owners since they are so easy to use and reliable. There are some quality issues with the latest boats, since cost-cutting measures have been introduced, such as the abandonment of the lovely louvred locker doors of the past. I don't much like centre cockpits but wasted space is a common issue with larger craft.
HR mahogany is not dark to my eyes, and I find HR interiors restful and cosy. Not everyone enjoys the kind of open-plan look of some modern boats, and when a boat is your home for months, as mine is, a "warm" interior gives us a comfortable shelter from the mayhem outside.
HR mahogany is not dark to my eyes, and I find HR interiors restful and cosy. Not everyone enjoys the kind of open-plan look of some modern boats, and when a boat is your home for months, as mine is, a "warm" interior gives us a comfortable shelter from the mayhem outside.
Fantasie 19
Well-Known Member
Having had a couple of trips on a smaller HR (the 342) I would agree with all of that... the only thing I didn't like about it was the maintrack position, the rest gave an impression of well built, solid, quality.. in car terms, a Bentley I think..
Skylark
Well-Known Member
Nice response, dom, thanks.
As recreational sailors it's hard to be objective as opportunities to draw comparisons don't present themselves too often.
The boat of my quoted experience was quite old. The last time I sailed across the same piece of water was on a slightly smaller AWB. Granted, the wind direction and sea state were better but the HR seemed to buck like a bronco when beating to a F5 but lumpy sea. It would regularly slam and slow to about 3.5 kts. Over the same long passage, the AWB had 1 to 1.5 kt overall speed advantage, but it did have wind on the beam and a calmer sea state. The motion of the HR to windward wasn't kind, in my opinion. It would have been interesting to witness similar conditions in an AWB. Prior to, it had been quite while since I'd been sailing inside a washing machine so I'm willing to admit that I may well have forgotten how bad it can be aboard a French offering,
As I left the boat my lasting thought was "only its mother could love it" but, hey, let's not get controversial! I respect everyone's choice of vessel.
As recreational sailors it's hard to be objective as opportunities to draw comparisons don't present themselves too often.
The boat of my quoted experience was quite old. The last time I sailed across the same piece of water was on a slightly smaller AWB. Granted, the wind direction and sea state were better but the HR seemed to buck like a bronco when beating to a F5 but lumpy sea. It would regularly slam and slow to about 3.5 kts. Over the same long passage, the AWB had 1 to 1.5 kt overall speed advantage, but it did have wind on the beam and a calmer sea state. The motion of the HR to windward wasn't kind, in my opinion. It would have been interesting to witness similar conditions in an AWB. Prior to, it had been quite while since I'd been sailing inside a washing machine so I'm willing to admit that I may well have forgotten how bad it can be aboard a French offering,
As I left the boat my lasting thought was "only its mother could love it" but, hey, let's not get controversial! I respect everyone's choice of vessel.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
I dont buy the AWB distinction. An HR is an AWB. It has a fairly standard hull design, is white, is GRP, is single mast . Sure its nicely finished inside and is definitely a superior AWB but an AWB nevertheless.
If you like the distinction between say Bav and HR is similar to that between Renault and Merc. HR isnt special and neither is Merc. If you want special, the boating equivalent of say Bentley or Ferrari then you have to go Swan or similar.
If you like the distinction between say Bav and HR is similar to that between Renault and Merc. HR isnt special and neither is Merc. If you want special, the boating equivalent of say Bentley or Ferrari then you have to go Swan or similar.
doug748
Well-Known Member
I would say no, definitely. You have just kept the pot boiling and, to mix my metaphors, all grist to the mill.
westhinder
Well-Known Member
You have a point there.
HR, Malö, and a number of others are clearly a cut above Hanse, Bavaria, Beneteau etc as far as choice of materials and quality of finish are concerned. But they are not faster and any analogy with a sports car is flawed. They may be better suited for longer trips in comfort, so if you want to compare with cars, a Mercedes or Volvo estate comes to mind. You might call them AAWB, above average white boat.
For the equivalent of Ferrari, Bentley etc you have to look at the real superyachts, the big Swans, Baltics, Wally.
Raft the biggelt Hanse, the biggest HR and the smallest Wally together and you will see the difference. Something like Ford/Mercedes/Bentley
Poecheng
Well-Known Member
Can I approach this another way (and a couple of posters may be able to help),
What is the car equivalent of the Starlight (35 or 39); we don't all buy cars to match the character of the boat but would like to know what does match the Starlight
What is the car equivalent of the Starlight (35 or 39); we don't all buy cars to match the character of the boat but would like to know what does match the Starlight
DJE
Well-Known Member
Hmm, something they don't make any more. Saab?