A petition to the UK Government

[rtchina]

I have finally bitten the bullet and created an online petition regarding the residence requirement for Part 3 registration, which I think should be the same as Part 1, ie that you can have a UK resident representative rather than the "must be resident" requirement.
The petition can be found at this address

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-treatment-uk-yachtsmen.html

I really don't like "blind eye" workarounds and think that this request is reasonable and cost free, so should be acted upon. I will take it up with my MP if there is any support. Please let any friends and associates know about it, thanks.
I am also posting this on the other forums in an attempt to get good coverage

 

[sarabande]

I must have missed the background to this issue.


Can you give us an Executive Summary please ?

 

[rtchina]

Part 3 is Legally only available to UK residents whereas Part 1 lets requires only that you have a UK resident representative. So, If you are sailing in foreign parts when you need to renew your registration, legally you can't in part 3, but can in part 1. Of course, some people cheat!

 

[bryantee]

pt 1and 3

my interpretation is on pt 1. 33sharesmust be owned by uk resident and domiciled/ or uk company.pt 3 is only for uk residents.

 

[Ariadne]

To get Part 1 you have to produce a certificate of nationality (includes address and passport details) & a Bill of Sale.

For Part 3 you don't need to prove anything, which is why it is so cheap - just download it from the internet just like the 'other UK nationals' who float around the Med' in British flagged boats.

So yes I agree make Part 3 the same as Part 1, just pay the additional fee and join the club.

 

[rtchina]

What interpretation? The official website clearly states that for Part 1 you can be a none resident UK citizen with a uk representative but for part 3 you can't.

 

[rtchina]

To get Part 1 you have to produce a certificate of nationality (includes address and passport details) & a Bill of Sale.

For Part 3 you don't need to prove anything, which is why it is so cheap - just download it from the internet just like the 'other UK nationals' who float around the Med' in British flagged boats.

So yes I agree make Part 3 the same as Part 1, just pay the additional fee and join the club.

But not so easy since you have to get a tonnage measurement for part 1 which is not really an issue for yachts.

 

[Tranona]

You are right in your differentiation of eligibility for the two registers.

Without going into the history of the SSR - this has been done to death on these fora over the last couple of years - there are historic reasons (although maybe not logical ones) for the differences. However, it has been raised many times by individuals with the authorities but there is no political will to do anything about it. The number of people affected is tiny and most have come to an accommodation with the system.

Maybe you should speak to the RYA as they were involved in setting up the register and I guess if there is any prospect of change it is more likely to happen with their backing than being prompted by a petition here.

 

[rtchina]

Yes you are right but, the RYA addressed this issue 12 years ago when we had a different Government and, the petition is free to sign so, why not?

 

[Ariadne]

Only your registered tonnage though - nothing complecated like Thames tonnage (Any decent surveyor should be able to work that out, I suspect you can get this from the builder if they are still around.), and your registered length which is usually shorter than your overall length. Quite handy in some places.

 

[GrahamM376]

Part 3 is Legally only available to UK residents whereas Part 1 lets requires only that you have a UK resident representative. So, If you are sailing in foreign parts when you need to renew your registration, legally you can't in part 3, but can in part 1. Of course, some people cheat!

Like most UK nationals, we have no problem renewing our Part 3 registration wherever we are. If you're having problems why not pay for Part 1?

Personally, I would like to see Part 3 tightened up to stop foreign nationals using the UK registry for convenience, just to avoid taxes and legislation in their own countries. I know of 3 SSR registered boats within half a mile of me now with owners who have never been to the UK and are just dodging Portuguese legislation/surveys etc.

 

[BrianH]

You are right in your differentiation of eligibility for the two registers.

Without going into the history of the SSR - this has been done to death on these fora over the last couple of years - there are historic reasons (although maybe not logical ones) for the differences. However, it has been raised many times by individuals with the authorities but there is no political will to do anything about it. The number of people affected is tiny and most have come to an accommodation with the system.

Maybe you should speak to the RYA as they were involved in setting up the register and I guess if there is any prospect of change it is more likely to happen with their backing than being prompted by a petition here.

Tranona, we have exchanged points of view on this subject for years now on these fora and have agreed to differ - amicably, I hope. However, the word "tiny" is truly not what I would call the large body of cruising folk who, perhaps unthinkingly, commit an offense by submitting an application for Part III registration when non-resident. Not only that, they ask a relative or friend to abet them in so doing by passing on the documentation.

I have met hoards of SSR-registered yachts both here in the Med. and during an extended passage last year in the Caribbean, with long-term cruisers who live permanently out of the UK and in no way comply with the residency rules. Not to mention the foreign nationals who profit from a sloppy system and who cannot even speak English. The system is a farce.

However, I do agree with your assessment that there is no will to do anything about it - I have never had any feedback whatsoever from the RYA on the subject and politicians view the yachting fraternity as rich gits to not waste valuable parliamentary time on. No, nothing will be done.

 

[Sultans_Kapitein]

As an aside, is there such a thing as Part 2 registration? Is it defunct? What was it?
Any answers?

Mal

 

[Tranona]

Tranona, we have exchanged points of view on this subject for years now on these fora and have agreed to differ - amicably, I hope. However, the word "tiny" is truly not what I would call the large body of cruising folk who, perhaps unthinkingly, commit an offense by submitting an application for Part III registration when non-resident. Not only that, they ask a relative or friend to abet them in so doing by passing on the documentation.

I have met hoards of SSR-registered yachts both here in the Med. and during an extended passage last year in the Caribbean, with long-term cruisers who live permanently out of the UK and in no way comply with the residency rules. Not to mention the foreign nationals who profit from a sloppy system and who cannot even speak English. The system is a farce.

However, I do agree with your assessment that there is no will to do anything about it - I have never had any feedback whatsoever from the RYA on the subject and politicians view the yachting fraternity as rich gits to not waste valuable parliamentary time on. No, nothing will be done.

My use of the word "tiny" was in relation to the population as a whole - that is what politicians are interested in. Basically there are no votes in it. As to UK nationals living on their boats outside the UK, I would imagine most of them would have registered their boats before they left when they did fully qualify so that gives them 5 years. Also as you know there are different forms of residency and although many people would not qualify under the SSR criteria they would still be residents for tax purposes - which introduces a whole new slant on eligibility.

You may see my post on the liveaboard forum on the subject of nationality of owner as a basis for ship registration. Strict nationality is as imperfect as the current system. When the SSR came into being the eligibility criteria were a good compromise to provide a simple system for those who needed it. The fact that the characteristics and habits of the UK national yacht owner have changed over the last 30 years or so has been accommodated by a relaxed attitude to strict enforcement. In an ideal world, the system should be tidied up to reflect the changes - and reality, but chances are that would only create new anomolies!