A new Challenge

[Anders_P42]

Which bit of it are you having difficulty understanding LJS? if we don't video I have no footage, is that simple enough for you.

When we work on these projects for testing we always have minor issues which always results in releases of gas, therefore no battery powered equipment such as video cameras, mobile phones, laptop/tablets, cordless or other power tools are allowed into what we define as an FLP area, basic health and safety.

You seem to be having difficulty answering my genuine question 'I'd still like to know how much HHO would be required to run my D6-370?'

 

[henryf]

Which bit of it are you having difficulty understanding LJS? if we don't video I have no footage, is that simple enough for you.

When we work on these projects for testing we always have minor issues which always results in releases of gas, therefore no battery powered equipment such as video cameras, mobile phones, laptop/tablets, cordless or other power tools are allowed into what we define as an FLP area, basic health and safety.

But if you've converted a car to run on water that obviously doesn't operate in a sterile area. I think you mentioned driving in Portugal where most of the population smokes. Surely it would be possible to film that.

H.

 

[Assassin]

FLP is not sterile, more basic ignorance.

When the units are built they are individually bench tested as bare components and when they are fitted to vehicles they are fitted into housings which are sealed units with all their fail safes installed. Once they are housed all you can see is the housing and pipes and looking at a lot of metal and pipes shows nothing. Where did I mention Portugal? the early vehicles were dismantled for engine analysis and the vehicles scrapped and the three current test subjects are running around the Midlands which is a long way from Portugal.

 

[MeaCulpa]

...the three current test subjects are running around Shire which is a long way from Mordor.

Fixed.

 

[vas]

...the three current test subjects are running around Shire which is a long way from Mordor.

so what is the problem then?
lack of internet in middle earth or lack of digital cameras there? cannot be the first as poster is apparently moving back and forth, so must be the second. I image it's easy to sort it, but I may be missing something here...

V.

PS. apols if I'm mixing Harry Potter with LoR, not very good at all that swords & monsters stuff...
PPS. Anders, haven't seen anyone even claiming that a diesel can run only on HHO, so no luck for you, try small, try tender engine first

 

[rbcoomer]

Whilst it's a long time since I looked, despite all the claims for many years I've never seen anything for either Petrol or Diesel that worked in a closed system without an outside fuel/energy source. There used to be loads of spoof videos and DIY kits etc available, but most appeared scams and made claims easily disproved! Adding hydrogen or HHO as a fuel enhancer does have many benefits (more on petrol than diesel IIRC) including more power (often around 10% claimed when I looked at), cleaner burn etc. Does it do enough to warrant all the extra kit, cost, time etc? Perhaps, but for most the warranty issues and hassle isn't worth the risk. If it worked that well, VAG (or another) would have utilised to boost their MPG rather than writing software to trick testers!

 

[henryf]

FLP is not sterile, more basic ignorance.

When the units are built they are individually bench tested as bare components and when they are fitted to vehicles they are fitted into housings which are sealed units with all their fail safes installed. Once they are housed all you can see is the housing and pipes and looking at a lot of metal and pipes shows nothing. Where did I mention Portugal? the early vehicles were dismantled for engine analysis and the vehicles scrapped and the three current test subjects are running around the Midlands which is a long way from Portugal.

Hey, I'm on your side here mate. You clearly haven't mastered the art of PR but that's not unusual in practical types so no worries. No, a flame proof room isn't sterile, a poor choice of words but I think most people understood the gist. If you've got the technology sorted I can worry about promoting it. As for sealed units - it will be simple enough to convert a vehicle in a visual way so the technology can be demonstrated to all the non Beliebers. If they can do it with a jet engine I can't see any major hurdles.

In your first post you mentioned Portugal - Both went to Portugal recently and got strange looks when one was out of fuel and he was seen filling the tank with sea water using a cheap plastic jug and a few seconds later he started his engine, many of the locals thought something had overheated until he told them he was filling his fuel tank.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?444856-A-new-Challenge#d6kXYDc4Atk0RorZ.99

Or did I misinterpret your words ?

If you're based in the midlands I'm just down the M40. Perfect

Henry

 

[Jegs]

Bruce mentioned a gold prospector & reminded of the old definition of a gold mine: "A hole in the ground with a liar at the top."

ATB,

John G

 

[Assassin]

RBC, a fair point, the Aussies are doing a lot in combining hydrogen injection with diesel fuel into large trucks, mainly the land trains with their heavy loads and originally they were getting around 5% more power and economy but times have moved on with them. They were using the Hoffmann method to produce hydrogen which as we know is inefficient and temperatures were a major issue. In their systems they found them economically viable but only just and they were only viable on these trucks with their heavy fuel consumption and hostile operating conditions. They found by switching to HHO this efficiency improved and some of the front runners in this technology (and a lot of experimentation) has increased power by an average 15% and economy by up to 20% which is a massive improvement on trucks operating on gallons per mile instead of miles per gallon.

You are correct about it being more efficient in a petrol engine then a diesel engine and at the present time we are focusing on petrol, diesel conversions have been done to run solely on HHO but this has been shelved temporarily as the EU are playing politics and beginning the removal of diesel engines from the car and light commercial vehicle markets, just how rapidly this will happen nobody knows yet so its a little wait and see at the present time, hence the current focus towards petrol engines at this time until we get an indication of which way the market goes for the diesel.

Henry F, read the post again and you will see it was two boats which were in Portugal, not vehicles. These were running two tenders with outboards with micro dry cell generators built into a fuel tank producing the HHO and were done at the early stages of actually running small engines initially on HHO and not a combination of HHO injected with petrol. As with anything you have to start at the beginning to prove your process and this worked from small petrol engines, we had chainsaws, strimmers, and other items such as generators running solely on HHO to prove it could be done, and figure out the best way to get HHO on demand in sufficient quantities without under or over producing HHO for each application. As we cracked that problem we moved onto larger engines and marine engines were selected as our next phase as boats are surrounded by half the fuel, water; and produce the other half, electricity from their alternators; they are also about the only place easily accessible with large industrially rated petrol engines.

I don't see the poor choice of words, FLP means flameproof and as most people are aware a flameproof area means no chance of sparks and total elimination of any risk of spark from battery operated appliances ranging from watches upwards and the elimination of other items such as silver foil used on anything from sweets to food wrapping and as we are playing with live gas we are very strict on this.

 

[BruceK]

That just sucks. 5%!! I'd have thought from your musings earlier it would have been totally self sufficient. What a loss. I hear from VW if I urinate in a bottle stuck in the engine I can shave 15. Talk about flogging dead horses.

However, go on then, show us the tenders, the genny's, chainsaws etc. You know, the proven process successes, which it must be said, was a remarkably quick POC given you were into battery tech just a tad earlier. You must have fingers in many pies to run them simultaneously, or, perchance just one of the backer's?
If you have any money left after this I have some swell ideas but we will have to take it to pm, I'm rather particular from whom I'll take money from.

 

[Assassin]

Interesting as you seem unable to read something so simple Bruce, or are you being deliberately obtuse and deliberately trying to confuse the issues as you are the one flogging the dead horse, so resorting to deliberate obfuscation, or maybe you are merely trying misdirection to make something fit your point of view, either way I don't really care as you are the one making yourself look a fool and in print for everyone to see.

Which bit don't you understand? or more accurately what don't you want to understand and try to manipulate.

The fact the Aussie boys used (note the word USED) a system of injecting pure Hoffmann derived hydrogen into land train engines by mixing it with diesel, a combined fuel which initially gave them around a 5% improvement which was ONLY JUST economically viable for these huge trucks, but switching from hydrogen using our much more efficient systems to give HHO and inject this with diesel, along with other improvements is averaging 15% more power and 20% more economy TODAY and will continue to improve with time and natural evolution. Get it now? initially meaning when they started some years ago and today meaning 2015.

Now we come to your blatant lie, "into battery tech" so prove your lie, I have never been into battery tech, merely had access to free cells and built large battery packs from them, building large battery packs is hardly being into battery tech, how about not telling lies and presenting your assumptions and opinions as fact when they are totally devoid of fact, merely your assumptions and opinions with a sprinkling of lies and misquotes.

Now your next little vexatious point, what bit of we dismantle and strip them don't you understand, if you had read the posts and used a modicum of intelligence you would have seen these were early stage trials to prove HHO could work in engines efficiently and as previously stated everything was dismantled for evaluation, and as we progressed today the engined got bigger, our technology improved, other technologies were incorporated and when proven or disproven everything is dismantled and evaluated for future information as to what we can expect and possibly predict. What bit don't you understand about marine engines being the largest petrol engines readily available with industrial ratings and industrial fuel consumption, and being the final testing on large petrol engine tests.

Which bit don't you understand about all our tests being done are engines run solely on HHO? not combinations such as the Aussie boys do?

I doubt you are capable of a good idea when you cannot process such simple words and data, much of development work is data and data analysis and obtaining data from proven testing and evaluation of what you have already proven, but hey its often much easier to try and mock what you don't understand, rather than trying to understand it.

 

[BruceK]

Ah yes, a good rant, and for your next magic trick I suppose you will show us the goods. Oh I know, I know. All dismantled and put away nice and neat in flame proof boxes whatever, but you must have something you can show for all the testing and development so far? I mean come on. Doncha wanna know where your bucks went? Aren't you the slightest bit suspicious your new found meal ticket is driving about in a gas guzzling Bentley or similar. I get so pissed off. I want a Bentley too. Save some of your bucks for me bud

 

[Seastoke]

ass in my world you are a knob

 

[Big John]

Assassin, I am right behind you on this and have followed HHO powered vehicles for many a year. I fully endorse your comment "Bruce, hey its often much easier to try and mock what you don't understand, rather than trying to understand it."

Most old timers who used horses said that a steam engine would never work and those committed to steam would never have accepted a liquid fuel such as benzene to power an internal combustion engine. The World has changed and we need to grasp new technologies.

Keep up the good work and do not be put off by the negative remarks. Empty vessels make the most noise.

 

[Seastoke]

Assassin, I am right behind you on this and have followed HHO powered vehicles for many a year. I fully endorse your comment "Bruce, hey its often much easier to try and mock what you don't understand, rather than trying to understand it."

Most old timers who used horses said that a steam engine would never work and those committed to steam would never have accepted a liquid fuel such as benzene to power an internal combustion engine. The World has changed and we need to grasp new technologies.

Keep up the good work and do not be put off by the negative remarks. Empty vessels make the most noise.

Itotaly agree with you so why does he not come to LIBS and show us the outboard s run on water and he would be most visited spot at libs

 

[BruceK]

Yes it is, but the claims being made are more preposterous. HHO as an additive has long been established and is without refute Just how eff3ective it is though is debatable. However, the OP couldn't help himself and stop there. No, he went the whole hog and makes the following claims:

For many years now I have played with hydrogen and forgotten the hypothesis and concentrated on the real world applications as a fuel, having converted several petrol engines to run solely on water, its time for a marine engine.

Two of my own vehicles have been converted to run solely on water and one is a large 4X4 which sinks fuel it is a pleasant change to throw water into it instead of petrol, other projects have included the usual small petrol engines on anything from quad bikes to generators, and recently a couple of outboards on friends tenders. Both went to Portugal recently and got strange looks when one was out of fuel and he was seen filling the tank with sea water using a cheap plastic jug and a few seconds later he started his engine, many of the locals thought something had overheated until he told them he was filling his fuel tank.

It makes sense to fit a hydrogen generator to a boat, after all its surrounded by its own fuel, salt water, the saving on marina prices would more than cover the cost of a high capacity submersible pump, pipe, and a few more batteries.

Can I correct you there, I assume you refer to electrolysis using the old and outdated Hoffmann method which totally separates the hydrogen and oxygen and bleeds the oxygen off; this method is totally outdated and very power hungry. We are not separating them off to two different gases and letting oxygen go, we are creating H H O which separates the molecules out into a gas form and recombines them, not together but as separate and individual molecules in a gas form which don't recombine as a liquid, hence why it is done on demand as it produces greater volumes of combustible gas for much less power.

You are actually correct in a lot of what you say, incorrect in some, its not about percentages, its about volumes and consumption.

To start the process you can take two options; as you correctly state you can use another fuel such as petrol and use a smaller quantity of HHO and inject or mix it with the petrol in a carburettor and still run a petrol/HHO mix. You can eliminate the petrol element totally and start the process by using a vehicle battery to begin the process and we have this down to about the same time as starting a cold diesel engine waiting for the glow plugs; or you can store some, in either of the last two you run solely on MMO.

Most of the recent developments have focused on improving the production capacity by increasing the voltage to the stack and this has failed miserably, now we have the capability and knowledge to design the stack by knowing the optimum voltage for each plate and the exact number of plates to install (and their surface area) for the available voltage we have and lower voltages are better, DC power is better than AC, and certain materials for the plates last much longer for a durable unit.
Therefore your external deficit is filled by the battery.

Now here's the crunch. Actually I do understand what Ass is talking about, enough at least to know that its complete and utter bull with the barest hint of truth in it to keep the gullible interested. He isn't the first to make such claims, it's a rash, yet not one, and I mean not one single one, has ever provided definitive proof or an example. Now he claims several successes, yet not one, example to show. Not a video, not even a pic, and for those who understand these things, one shred of theory on how he turned the Laws of Thermodynamics on their head. Funny how he's following the trend on that score. Now you can be as gullible as you like, but at least you're not bullshitting everybody else with your achievements. Maybe you can invest, or support his research. I'm all for that, just steady on the fireside stories. At least until I've had a few :encouragement:

 

[BruceK]

OK, a new challenge. Get Donkey to show us the goods and I'll karaoke "I'm a believer" - The Monkeys version - as an act of humble pie at the next Beer n Natter

 

[bigwow]

Where can I buy some of what you lot are obviously on?

 

[BruceK]

HHO fumes John. HHO. You can pick up the cheap as chips jam jar DIYs with instructions on all the good sites. Boats and Outboards, Gumtree, Craiglist etc. Mix with a dash of petrol or better yet, neat, and snort. NO NAKED FLAMES tho hear. Blow your mind. We have the evidence.

Time for this thread to go to The Lounge

 

[KevB]

Here is a man who doesn't seem too worried about keeping the idea locked up out of harms way..

http://uk.reuters.com/video/2015/08/11/brazilian-builds-water-powered-motorbike?videoId=365253395&videoChannel=82&channelName=Environment&utm_source=Facebook