A market for trad tenders?

[grumpydog]

Whether it would work or not is very debatable! I would say probably not, but many boatbuilders started life building a boat for themselves, finding others wanted it and carrying on from there. Do you want one for your own use? If so build it, show it to as many people as you can, and see if you get any takers.

 

[Clive_Rigden]

Trust you're still taking the lessons, Phil. Good to see your dog has every confidence . . .
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[mkpbyrne]

if you think it will take 150 hours to scratch build a 7ft clinker then work for a cheap rate like 20 per hour then add your materials and overheads then 1200 is for nothing!!!
then you will have to get CE approval and insurance (manufactures product cover) before you sell them at all.
i don't want to sound negative as id love to do the same over here (Eire) where the market is even smaller but unfortunately its just the wrong decade!!
mickb

 

[Ruffles]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering if there may be a market for a traditional clinker tender.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lots of peeps would love to own a trad tender. But would you want to leave one lying around in a boat yard? Which is what you use a tender for after all. Thats why people stick with old wrecks - they tend to stay where you left them.

I've just tarted up my old tender which I bought for v little. I'm now reluctant to leave it in the yard in case it walks.

BTW any suggestions on how to lock up a dinghy? The only chain I can get through the c'board slot is too thin for real security.

 

[ccscott49]

Run some stainless rigging wire through the slot, should be able to get 8mm 7x19 wire through, with proper ends on it. Maybe some old wire lying about the yard, make at least two.

 

[Lakesailor]

Yes. I padlock my tender with a rigging wire strop I had made up with an eye on each end, about 15 ft long. It only cost about £12 I seem to remember. It'll stop opportunists and even give hacksaw-wielding scroats something to think about.

 

[Lakesailor]

As anyone who knows me would recognise I follow fashions rules religiously and "brown and green should never be seen". In addition a football seems to be in the bilges and that is something I couldn't countenance.
So it obviously isn't me.

Interestingly the guy in the boat's mother was the last person to be born on Belle Isle, in Bowness Bay. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Guest]

Good grief!.............Is that Arthur Daley rowin' that boat???? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Now he WAS a man of principals /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Lakesailor]

Not only is it not Arthur Daley, but Bob the dog will have you. He knows where you live.

By the way, back on thread, theres a boat for sale Here. £1650 and it needs finishing off. Is this a way around certifying?
Interesting to see if it sells.

 

[Guest]

Ok Arfur!.......I suppose you will send Terry round to give me a slappin' now /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Bob the dog looks more interested in the fishes than anything else, cute boat on B&O but I don't think he will get his asking price, but who knows, if the right punter is out there?

Best, Charlie. ( a man with no principles and few prejudices) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[David_Jersey]

The short answer is I don't actually know...............but I have never let that stop me giving my opinion before, so I won't stop now /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I suspect that there is not much of a market due to Marinas, an aversion for anything with even a hint of "maintanence", no taste /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif and most importantly a reluctance nowadays to leave ANYTHING that looks "nice" lying around unattended /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

But no reason why you can't try and test the market by building 1 or 2, as well as honing your skills (if you need to?) and refining your method of "production" and the sourcing of suppliers............before building bigger? As already said, it is the labour that is the problem. Unless you work for free? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Obviously you still have the "finding a market" problem, but what about at the outset trying to find someone / a business that needs tender sized rowing boats or larger day sailors (a start up or existing bizness) and you propose to build a small fleet for them to their specific requirements?? (and possibly even maintain them?, for 1 year or even longer?) At least if you can agree a price that is acceptable to you before building you KNOW you have a market, so don't have to factor in the "sitting on the shelf" cost of capital (and you could even sweeten the deal for a start up with stage payments over a season?). I dunno what the leisure market is like in the UK (or where you are based) but if someone has a fleet of GRP boats on a lake or river, then maybe you can convince them that wooden boats are actually "better" as they are more attractive to the punters AND can be repaired / refurbished to look "as good as new". Could even start off with a couple on "test" for a season?

Whilst I get the impression that you want to build 100% traditional, perhaps you should think about using modern technology as much as possible to make them as "Low maintanence" as is possible for a wooden boat!

Just occurred to me how you can build boats for "free" (labour wise)..............you sell an "assisted build" as part of a "hands on holiday experiance". Those who actually want the boat pay for the materials (plus a bit /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif) on TOP of the cost of tuition.........and those who don't want the boat, get a pint of beer, a "certificate of achievement" /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.........whilst you get the tuition fees and a boat to sell (or disassemble? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif) for the next punter /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I am only half joking here. People pay for less on holiday and I am sure building a boat (of some sort) IS appealing to a fair few who do not have the courage / ability / time to do so at home (if only to post on YBW....."when I built a boat" /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) , the drawback being not neccesarily everyone NEEDS the finished article!!

 

[David_Jersey]

oops, just read your BIO, I guess you probably DO already know what you are doing skills wise /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[JesseLoynes]

Wow, that's a whole load of suggestions; and a lot of help. As it stands, I would quite like to own a nice little trad boat anyway, even if I just use it as a form of advertising! Plus, it really is time that I built a boat from scratch myself - Too many times I get the question: "Oh, you're a boat builder.., how many boats have you built?" Reply: "Er.. none!" /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I think that there are plenty of semi trad alternatives out there, some of them going for up to £4k including a basic gunter rig; hence wondering if there was a market for a completely trad build boat.

However, I agree the security problem is something to consider. At Dell Quay recently most of the tender were as you described, not worth vandalising!

As to upkeep, I was thinking of offering a maintenance scheme. Flat fee as long as the boat is lodged with me for a month or two every winter. I figure that it'll keep me busy during the quieter winter period, encourage people to buy who otherwise would be concerned about the upkeep, and if the boats are checked over each year, and resealed, then major problems should be kept to a minimum. Alternately, I might end up having to do lots of work for very little income, and not be able to get on with my own normal work.

Much as I love the idea of selling the building experience as a holiday type affair, I imagine the HSE side would be a fair nightmare and it would mean letting other people into my workshop /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I thnk possibly the best way forward is to follow up with local businesses, clubs etc and see if I can get them interested. Thanks again to all, and if it goes well, you'll see a (obviously very subtle /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) link at the bottom of my posts. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Jess.

 

[ccscott49]

Now that is an interesting project, buy the oars, make the spars/sails, add a lot more varnish! etc. Might buy that myself! Now how to get it back to Barcelona?? But I have just bought a Bike/boat trailer, for my Bike, that would take a 12 foot boat, think think Hmmm maybe!!!

 

[Scarboroughsloop]

Not a building experience holiday, but would you consider boatbuilding lessons in return for a 12' clinker dinghy needing work?

 

[Mirelle]

Security

If you put a mirror on the floorboards of the tender I built for myself, 15 years ago, under the thwart, you will read the words:

"Stolen from Andrew Craig-Bennett"

in addition to the words

"T/T Mirelle" carved inside the transom.

 

[Mirelle]

The RNLI went back to wood for their boarding boats, as the GRP ones would not stand the abuse they were getting.

It is all to do with working at speed, isn't it?

I suspect that the trick must be to series build.

You need to get the man hours per boat down to something like 80, rather than 150. If you could get the man hours down to 60, it might become viable.

Besides a good building jig, you would need to get patterns out for each plank, to save time in spiling, and bandsaw say two pairs at a time.

The Herreshoff method, with a building jig comprising a mould for each bent frame and the inner face of the centreline profile, with frames bent over before planking, seems well thought out for series production of conventional quality wooden boats.

Herreshoff used screw fastening, IIRC; with a power driver this is probably quicker than roving up, if the British public will accept a screw fastened tender. But you've probably got the book from Mystic Seaport already.

You would not have time to laminate; crook timber would be faster.

I reckon a stem dinghy will outsell a pram, and, people being people, a nice coir fender run round it will sell it even quicker!

You would lose a lot of time varnishing, though.

A 9 footer is a good practical size.

I would offer one with a daggerboard case, mast step and hole for a mast in the fore thwart and offer a sailing kit as an extra.

There is probably a related market for small launches to get to distant moorings - something with a small handstart diesel. These are as scarce as hen's teeth.

 

[Ruffles]

Re: Security

I've got the name carved in teak, Silkaflexed to the transom. This does not come off easily - I know I removed the previous name and it took the gelcoat off with it. It's also written on the inside of the buoyancy tanks.

I assume you carved the thwart before you attached it???

 

[Casey]

I don't know if there is a market for traditional tenders but I have one that is going begging. It is a 10 foot dinghy built by Bosson's Boatyard of Oxford and is made of two thicknesses of thick veneer. It is in a bit of a state and I have neither the skills nor the time to repair it. If you, or anyone else, wants it it is yours for the picking up from Hythe (Southampton) sailing club. It was the tender to Kala Sona which also will be advertised for sale soon.