A man with a machine gun came up to me - or was it a dream

Triassic, you are obviously not aware that QHM's powers in the waters they cover are far greater than most people think particularly with regard to the protection of naval assets.
 
robertj said:
They can kill you without redress. Treat them as what they are.
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This is getting silly now. These officers have no more powers to shoot you than your local village bobby (if such a thing still exists), it's just that they have the means to do so more readily available.

The only powers they have from the QHM are those extended to him by the Dockyard Ports Regulation Act 1865 and the subsequent Order that sets out various regulations, one of which is the 250m exclusion zone around naval vessels (each order is specific to the location but they pretty much all contain that one). Incidentally the penalty for breaching the exclusion zone is a fine, not summary execution.

These officers also have other duties and responsibilities which is why they are sometimes armed and you do need to be fairly careful around how they may interpret these, which is why I advocated caution if like me you might choose to play with them a little.....
 
What puzzles me, Mr. t is why you proclaim insider knowledge, have disdain for those doing the job and advocate being dicky.

It's an odd attitude if you don't mind me saying. If you are like that with all people in their work place, I bet you are looked forward too with a whole bundle of joy in, say, Tescos.

Just sayin.........:nonchalance:
 
capnsensible said:
What puzzles me, Mr. t is why you proclaim insider knowledge, have disdain for those doing the job and advocate being dicky.

It's an odd attitude if you don't mind me saying. If you are like that with all people in their work place, I bet you are looked forward too with a whole bundle of joy in, say, Tescos.

Just sayin.........:nonchalance:
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I make no secret of it, I was a copper for thirty years, now retired. Spent the vast majority of my career in front line operations including a spell on Special Branch and the last decade within Tactical Operations. A lot of my work involved planning and running operations which at times included a firearms element so knowing how they operate, including their vulnerabilities, was pretty much unavoidable..... I don't think distain is an accurate description of my view of some officers so I'm sorry if it comes across that way, mistrust or a lack of confidence in them might be more appropriate.
 
genius little exchange there

Triassic holding some pretty good cards in that argument

on the subject of armed coppers

I was talking to the postie the other day - nice man - tall.

he was singing the praises of the autumn colours and the sunrises at this time of year

he has only been a postman for six years

before that he was a close protection officer

got shot in the back at Bisley

I had to ask the obvious question

what does it feel like to get shot?

he said

first it feels as though some-one has just kicked you hard in the back

then there there is an overwhelming sensation of heat - the hot bullet - and you just want to get it it out of you

says he likes his new job better than the other one.

more interesting
 
dylanwinter said:
first it feels as though some-one has just kicked you hard in the back
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I was always getting told off for not wearing my body armour so one day I walked into a meeting with several senior officers in full kit. When asked why I replied, "Sir, after carrying out an extensive risk assessment of the situation I've come to the conclusion that I am far more likely to be stabbed in the back here than on the street". It was quite a short meeting.....
 
Triassic said:
I was always getting told off for not wearing my body armour so one day I walked into a meeting with several senior officers in full kit. When asked why I replied, "Sir, after carrying out an extensive risk assessment of the situation I've come to the conclusion that I am far more likely to be stabbed in the back here than on the street". It was quite a short meeting.....
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And they let you stay for 30 years???
 
Triassic said:
This is getting silly now. These officers have no more powers to shoot you than your local village bobby (if such a thing still exists), it's just that they have the means to do so more readily available.

The only powers they have from the QHM are those extended to him by the Dockyard Ports Regulation Act 1865 and the subsequent Order that sets out various regulations, one of which is the 250m exclusion zone around naval vessels (each order is specific to the location but they pretty much all contain that one). Incidentally the penalty for breaching the exclusion zone is a fine, not summary execution.

These officers also have other duties and responsibilities which is why they are sometimes armed and you do need to be fairly careful around how they may interpret these, which is why I advocated caution if like me you might choose to play with them a little.....
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You may well be right - in theory. But rather like the rather forlorn right of way defence it does you very little practical use.

I can tell you this though, if you successfully breach the exclusion zone around an American carrier when anchored in Stokes Bay, or an American submarine tied up in Portsmouth- and are assessed by the crew to present a clear and present danger the penalty will be much more severe than a fine and you will be neutralised. You may argue that they used excessive force and that you had right on your side - but circumstances may dictate that your surviving relatives pursue that argument on your behalf.
 
dylanwinter said:
genius little exchange there

Triassic holding some pretty good cards in that argument

on the subject of armed coppers

I was talking to the postie the other day - nice man - tall.

he was singing the praises of the autumn colours and the sunrises at this time of year

he has only been a postman for six years

before that he was a close protection officer

got shot in the back at Bisley

I had to ask the obvious question

what does it feel like to get shot?

he said

first it feels as though some-one has just kicked you hard in the back

then there there is an overwhelming sensation of heat - the hot bullet - and you just want to get it it out of you

says he likes his new job better than the other one.

more interesting
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Only dog bites now, then?
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
If someone wanted to act like an arse around the security I am sure they would deal with it as appropriate in an appropriate manner. Plenty of stories of tourists and visitors wandering around the hills and being intercepted by either regular police on the road or special people in the fields / hills.
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Years ago I was greeted by a VERY fierce looking group of French soldier with guns when, on a walking holiday in the Eifel, I came across a military base which was not shown on any of my maps. I think they were particularly sensitive because of the recently delivery of missiles which were sitting around to be lowered into silos. I talked my way out of it by using bad French in a German accent - probably a good thing, as I had on my a Minox spy camera with pictures I had been taking of signs saying "Warning: Photography is Strictly Forbidden".

In my Gareloch sailing days I seriously thought about having a triradial spinnaker made into a CND-symbol, just to tickle up the WMD boys a bit.
 
NormanB said:
I can tell you this though, if you successfully breach the exclusion zone around an American carrier when anchored in Stokes Bay, or an American submarine tied up in Portsmouth- and are assessed by the crew to present a clear and present danger the penalty will be much more severe than a fine and you will be neutralised. You may argue that they used excessive force and that you had right on your side - but circumstances may dictate that your surviving relatives pursue that argument on your behalf.
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How many times has that happened?
 
JumbleDuck said:
Years ago I was greeted by a VERY fierce looking group of French soldier with guns when, on a walking holiday in the Eifel, I came across a military base which was not shown on any of my maps. I think they were particularly sensitive because of the recently delivery of missiles which were sitting around to be lowered into silos. I talked my way out of it by using bad French in a German accent - probably a good thing, as I had on my a Minox spy camera with pictures I had been taking of signs saying "Warning: Photography is Strictly Forbidden".

In my Gareloch sailing days I seriously thought about having a triradial spinnaker made into a CND-symbol, just to tickle up the WMD boys a bit.
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Going for a drive along the Gen Douglas road (where there's a 'storage facility' within a spit of Faslane and Coulport) used to prove amusing; if you slowed down, other than at a passing place, it brought out the armoured land rovers and binoculars.
 
Triassic said:
OK, putting my humour and rather flippant attitude towards these individuals to one side for a moment they need considerably more justification than an off the cuff response to their instruction to "stay away from that submarine" to use any force on you whatsoever. They are bound by exactly the same laws and rules as any other police officer, i.e.: any force they use has to be reasonable, proportionate and necessary in the exercise of their duty. Providing you are observing SOLAS regulations and any other local bylaws, and not doing anything that could be construed as an immediate threat they are fairly limited as to what they can actually do unless they can somehow link you to some other intelligence or information they may be acting on.

Unfortunately sometimes these things can escalate quite easily and accounts afterwards may be somewhat different to how you saw them at the time.....
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Or indeed what actually happened. Plods look after each other and the system takes more notice of what they say than of what you say. Avoid.
 
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