A Man Who does not mince his words.

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shanemax

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Electric narrow boat fire at Gayton Mariner follow up.
The Vlog Couple.
Interesting uncompromising view.
It is worth 10 minutes watch
 
The idea of such a risk on a boat scares the heck out of me.

I suspect the issue here was defective charging controller so only a risk when shore supply is on, but yachts with electric sail the oceans and a defect with their solar charging controller could well mean death to all on board
 
oldmanofthehills said:
The idea of such a risk on a boat scares the heck out of me.

I suspect the issue here was defective charging controller so only a risk when shore supply is on, but yachts with electric sail the oceans and a defect with their solar charging controller could well mean death to all on board
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Boats with diesel engines and generators sail the oceans, and a defective alternator, leaking fuel or dodgy exhaust could be fatal.

Boats with gas cookers sail the oceans and a defect could be explosive.

Unless you want to sail the oceans with just canvas and hope you don’t get becalmed for so long your food/water runs out it’s a risk we take and design, maintenance and monitoring should minimise the risk.
 
ylop said:
Boats with diesel engines and generators sail the oceans, and a defective alternator, leaking fuel or dodgy exhaust could be fatal.

Boats with gas cookers sail the oceans and a defect could be explosive.

Unless you want to sail the oceans with just canvas and hope you don’t get becalmed for so long your food/water runs out it’s a risk we take and design, maintenance and monitoring should minimise the risk.
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Everything you mention can happen but with correct maintenance should not. There trouble with all lithium is it's an imperfect science only allowed because of the green lobby. It is not progress for a simple 12 volt battery to need management system incase it gets too hot, gets to cold, realises it's amps to quickly and needs a heater pad in cold weather. If you think that is progress you can keep it
 
The type of battery being used in the Canal Boat and bow it was set up and operated, is important to understand the threat of a fire or explosion. The YouTube videos do not state what type of batteries or how they were installed.

For sailors who want to install LiFePO4 here is a report on the fire risk of LiFePO4 chemistry as used in battery. Anern is a global company that sells solar lighting and battery solutions. There is no doubt that they are selling their product but they give the reasons why the chemistry is safer than other Lothian ion batteries.

Do LiFePO4 Batteries Catch Fire? - Guangzhou Anern Energy Technology Co., Ltd.

Alternatively, this company, discusses how LiFePO4 batteries can catch fire and explode. This is due to manufacturing process, quality control and end user. They do state that it is the safest chemistry, however, do not consider them to no risk.

Causes and Consequences of Explosion of LiFePO4 Battery

Causes and Consequences
In general, lithium iron phosphate batteries do not explode or ignite. LiFePO4 batteries are safer in normal use, but they are not absolute and can be dangerous in some extreme cases. It is related to the company's decisions of material selection, ratio, process and later uses. Although the LiFePO4 material is thermodynamical, its thermal stability and structural stability are among the highest of all current cathode materials and have been verified in actual safety performance tests, but the possibility of short-circuiting from materials and batteries is inherent. And by chance, it may be the least safe.
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shanemax said:
Everything you mention can happen but with correct maintenance should not.
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But that’s also true of well installed, well thought out LiFePO batteries.
shanemax said:
There trouble with all lithium is it's an imperfect science only allowed because of the green lobby.
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I don’t know - if you had all of today’s battery technologies lined up and one of them produces hydrogen gas if over charged or can split the battery casing spilling sulfuric acid over the bilges we might be asking why it doesn’t have good risk mitigations engineered in.
 
ylop said:
But that’s also true of well installed, well thought out LiFePO batteries.

I don’t know - if you had all of today’s battery technologies lined up and one of them produces hydrogen gas if over charged or can split the battery casing spilling sulfuric acid over the bilges we might be asking why it doesn’t have good risk mitigations engineered in.
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I have never in my life heard of a hydrogen explosion from a LA battery. Perhaps some where where dozens of batteries are being charged at the same time with no ventilation it may have happened ? And the acid from a car battery caused a hole in my jumper, when I spilled some. It was uncomfortable on my fingers till I flushed and washed them
 
shanemax said:
Everything you mention can happen but with correct maintenance should not. There trouble with all lithium is it's an imperfect science only allowed because of the green lobby. It is not progress for a simple 12 volt battery to need management system incase it gets too hot, gets to cold, realises it's amps to quickly and needs a heater pad in cold weather. If you think that is progress you can keep it
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The spirit of your opening sentence is equally applicable to a properly built and maintained LiFePO4 battery. To be able to repeatedly extract ~90% of a battery's energy without damaging the battery seems to be significant progress over conventional lead acid batteries. Is the technolgy perfect? No. Will it improve? Yes.
 
RunAgroundHard said:
The type of battery being used in the Canal Boat and bow it was set up and operated, is important to understand the threat of a fire or explosion. The YouTube videos do not state what type of batteries or how they were installed.

For sailors who want to install LiFePO4 here is a report on the fire risk of LiFePO4 chemistry as used in battery. Anern is a global company that sells solar lighting and battery solutions. There is no doubt that they are selling their product but they give the reasons why the chemistry is safer than other Lothian ion batteries.

Do LiFePO4 Batteries Catch Fire? - Guangzhou Anern Energy Technology Co., Ltd.

Alternatively, this company, discusses how LiFePO4 batteries can catch fire and explode. This is due to manufacturing process, quality control and end user. They do state that it is the safest chemistry, however, do not consider them to no risk.

Causes and Consequences of Explosion of LiFePO4 Battery
Click to expand...
Your right, lifepo4 will not burn you to death but if they off gas will destroy the lining of your lungs. Bit like mustard gas in the first world war
 
shanemax said:
I have never in my life heard of a hydrogen explosion from a LA battery. Perhaps some where where dozens of batteries are being charged at the same time with no ventilation it may have happened ? And the acid from a car battery caused a hole in my jumper, when I spilled some. It was uncomfortable on my fingers till I flushed and washed them
Click to expand...
I’ve not done this but I think if you search the forum you’ll find more people with first hand experience of exploding LA batteries than LiFePO.
 
I skim-read an article by a USN officer dealing with the causes of explosions of hydrogen gas produced by diesel-electric submarines' batteries.

It was on the internet. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow.
 
shanemax said:
I have never in my life heard of a hydrogen explosion from a LA battery. Perhaps some where where dozens of batteries are being charged at the same time with no ventilation it may have happened ? And the acid from a car battery caused a hole in my jumper, when I spilled some. It was uncomfortable on my fingers till I flushed and washed them
Click to expand...
I have known two people who have had a lead acid battery explode in their faces. One removed a charger clip from the battery of a classic car and the battery still had some of the packaging wrapped round it, which had trapped the gasses. He was lucky as he knew where the yard tap was so could wash the acid away very quickly. The other event was aboard a boat on a marina berth which was on a mains charger again, with a big battery bank all gassing a bit. he did not know what caused the ignition but he was evacuated by air ambulance and needed a few skin grafts.
 
Rum Run said:
I have known two people who have had a lead acid battery explode in their faces. One removed a charger clip from the battery of a classic car and the battery still had some of the packaging wrapped round it, which had trapped the gasses. He was lucky as he knew where the yard tap was so could wash the acid away very quickly. The other event was aboard a boat on a marina berth which was on a mains charger again, with a big battery bank all gassing a bit. he did not know what caused the ignition but he was evacuated by air ambulance and needed a few skin grafts.
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i didn't see that reported in the boating press but I dare say shit happens.
 
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