A cavalier attitude to having an emergency kicker engine...

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OKBoater

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Emergency kicker engine Yay or Nay?

I am in the market for a kicker engine, and I find that some boaters I have asked around kind of scoff at the idea. Their attitude is save your money...it's overkill...just bring an oar...you're on a lake so just flag someone for a tow....these engines rarely break down... (that was the best one)

When I look around the lake I see very few boats with kickers. I wonder if any of them have ever been broken down in the late evening, in bad conditions and left with only those options? It seems the boaters who swear by kicker engines have usually had a bad experience without one, or have had one really save the day for them.

Has anybody ever tried to row in a 16 ft bowrider? I am new to boating but the thought of having no backup motor seems reckless.

Here is an example of the cavalier attitude I referred to.
http://forum.chaparralboats.com/index.php?/topic/15785-emergency-backup-engine/&page=1
 
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Re: Emergency kicker engine Yay or Nay?

When I had a small cuddy speedboat I had to use the aux 3 times. None was ever because of an engine failure.
1. The grub screw on the shift and throttle lever came out and lo and behold it wasn't a metric size as the rest of the boat was.
2. The starter motor bolt sheared off
3. Water in fuel

No you cant row a bow rider without oarlocks fitted, if you did you could. You cant paddle a bow rider very easily.
In this class of boat you get a division between those that have a sense of seamanship and those that think it's just a boy's toy. I suppose much depends on your lake and the availability of assistance and your threshold of inconvenience / danger. Personally I try to be as self sufficient as viable. Having your boat wash up on the far shore at night leaving you cold and miserable until morning chance rescue is above my threshold of inconvenience, forget danger.
 
Re: Emergency kicker engine Yay or Nay?

BruceK said:
When I had a small cuddy speedboat I had to use the aux 3 times. None was ever because of an engine failure.
1. The grub screw on the shift and throttle lever came out and lo and behold it wasn't a metric size as the rest of the boat was.
2. The starter motor bolt sheared off
3. Water in fuel

No you cant row a bow rider without oarlocks fitted, if you did you could. You cant paddle a bow rider very easily.
In this class of boat you get a division between those that have a sense of seamanship and those that think it's just a boy's toy. I suppose much depends on your lake and the availability of assistance and your threshold of inconvenience / danger. Personally I try to be as self sufficient as viable. Having your boat wash up on the far shore at night leaving you cold and miserable until morning chance rescue is above my threshold of inconvenience, forget danger.
Click to expand...

I agree...and for the cost of 2 tows you could buy a kicker engine right there. Also, asking another boat for assistance to tow you in is great and all...but I'm sure they would rather be enjoying their day than towing you in.
 
Re: Emergency kicker engine Yay or Nay?

simonfraser said:
reliability issue of a second engine. unless you run it regularly no guarantee it will do the job.
better to spend the time / money on maintaining your main engine.
Click to expand...

That's like going hunting without a winch imo. As BruceK mentioned it's not always engine failure that is the culprit. Not hard to run the kicker 15 minutes when you are out from time to time. If that's your boat in the picture good luck rowing that baby back to shore. :)

Anyway to each his own...I personally would rather have a backup and not need one than need one and not have one.
 
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Re: Emergency kicker engine Yay or Nay?

simonfraser said:
reliability issue of a second engine. unless you run it regularly no guarantee it will do the job.
better to spend the time / money on maintaining your main engine.
Click to expand...

Only an idiot would think they are mutually exclusive. Your point being?
 
Re: Emergency kicker engine Yay or Nay?

simonfraser said:
reliability issue of a second engine. unless you run it regularly no guarantee it will do the job.
better to spend the time / money on maintaining your main engine.
Click to expand...
.....and so the answer is to run the aux regularly and off a separate fuel supply to the main engine.
 
Re: Emergency kicker engine Yay or Nay?

I have 1200 hours flying a single engine aircraft so I am rather of the if it is maintained it will be fine camp. The consequences of engine failure in a plane are generally rather greater!

Catastrauphic failures do of course happen but they are very rare. There are two on here I can think of. Cloud 9 and Bart( not 100%sure Bart’s stopped. Cloud 9 defiantly did ).

From a purely personal level a well maintained boat with tools and consumable parts ( impellers etc) would seem the way to go.
 
Re: Emergency kicker engine Yay or Nay?

Comparing a plane to a boat, not sure that analogy really works on so many levels. Not quite sure I've ever heard of a kicker motor on aeroplanes either to be honest. I'll take your word for it though.
 
Re: Emergency kicker engine Yay or Nay?

I wouldnt go quite that far, but the aircraft vs boat argument with regards to engines has always struck me as odd. Aircraft I am pretty sure are built to a much higher standard, maintained rigorously with accountability right back to source and their engines are not stressed to the same degree as boats nor encumbered with accoutrements such as gearboxes etc etc and everything else you'll find on a marinised engine. I just dont believe you can justifiably put the two in juxtaposition and compare.
 
Re: Emergency kicker engine Yay or Nay?

jrudge said:
I have 1200 hours flying a single engine aircraft so I am rather of the if it is maintained it will be fine camp. The consequences of engine failure in a plane are generally rather greater!

Catastrauphic failures do of course happen but they are very rare. There are two on here I can think of. Cloud 9 and Bart( not 100%sure Bart’s stopped. Cloud 9 defiantly did ).

From a purely personal level a well maintained boat with tools and consumable parts ( impellers etc) would seem the way to go.
Click to expand...
Strangely I find myself agreeing with BK. So the majority of boat engine failures are caused by poor maintenance, rather than the somewhat hostile environment in which they’re kept?
 
Re: Emergency kicker engine Yay or Nay?

Aircraft engines are mostly lycoming. They date back to the 30s and have magnetos to generate spark which have not been used in cars since the 50s. The requirement for certification stops progress

Yes they are maintained but in practice this means

- oil and plugs
- valve clearances
- compression test
- visual inspection

There is nothing miraculous about what is done to them other than the engineers right to damand work is done right or he won’t sign it off. So don’t change x this time as I am a bit short simply can’t happen.

If a boat engine is well maintained ( if ) then I believe the odds of a failure are low. Basic tools and parts can fix the most common issues. Fuel / impellers.

They are reliable units based on truck engines. In many people post on here that they have had catastrophic engine failure. I believe very few and I have already listed the only two I know of.

Everyone has their own degree of risk. If an individual wants a second engine as a backup so be it , but all are entitled to their views and risk outlook - which will also depend on the cruising they do of course.
 
Re: Emergency kicker engine Yay or Nay?

Although not clear in the Ops post his question relates to his environment and opening post. Whereas I agree a kicker on most cruisers would be useless and so irrelevant, on a small open bow rider with a single OB it is not and so is a completely different argument on a 1 vs 2 engine on a cruiser. And I disagree. An aircraft engineer vs your average marine engineer or dealer are not the same and do not share the same levels of accountability. I don't know the stats for this but I'd put a friendly wager the number of leisure dealer / marine engineer vs aircraft engineer serviced engine failures will be pretty one sided
 
Btw who all here has one of those rather smart Williams Ribs. Maybe they can chime in :p

If not on reliability at least on the basis of KIS 1930 technology vs The Jet Age
 
So we will agree to differ !

What you seem to be saying is that aviation engineers are better than marine engineers. Maybe , maybe not but I would imagine that the owner saying don’t do x this time or bodge it as I can’t wait / afford it play an equally large part. On planes simply not possible ( at least now!) so when the marine engineer says I will weld the exhaust one last time the aviation guy simply fits a new one.

The boat population is vast compared to light aircraft so they will have more failures in any event ( not that we hear of many on here )

Willaims. Gone wrong ( yup just picked up a £3k bill for it ) but did it stop. No. It more reliable than the 2ho outboards I see sailing boats pulling and pulling the starter in the vein hope if will start. But that’s a separate discussion.

If the op wants an second engine then simple. Fit one !
 
“If the op wants an second engine then simple. Fit one !”

And there I think is the point. If you can fit a second engine which is reliable and powerful enough to get you out of trouble, why wouldn’t you?
 
I don't think you can compare aviation to marine either. I have been on a brand new dive rib in the Jack Sound in Pembrokeshire when a plastic bag covered covered the cooling intake and halted the engine, that was a hard paddle. A secondary engine would have been most welcome. I remember when i was in flight school in Florida in 94, a student and instructor had an engine failure resulting in the plane crash landing, inverted in a swamp, the NTSB report concluded the failure was due to a bug (ie. fly etc) that was in a newly fitted carb and blocked a jet starving the a/c of fuel. So a rigorously maintained a/c can fail with more catastrophic results than a boat engine failure. Personally, two engines are better than one imho. :)
 
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