A Boating Topic - HONEST

[EME]

A Boating Topic - HONEST

TCM - you are not allowed to swear about this spreadsheet.

Our ongoing search for boating nirvana ,presented us with the attached 'Final' choice of boats. Both are Sunseeker Superhawk 48s ...interested in what you would have chosen...??

Selection Criteria

1) Weekend use primarily
2) Cash outlay important…financing in both cases
3) May sell 1/2 share IF not used enough
4) Come back on Sunseeker agency has value as 1st time buyers
5) Use in Med ( South of France)

Assumptions

1) VAT – free boat will be kept VAT free in company (charter use) with obvious issues of maintaining records etc but no big deal
2) All finance through UK companies
3) Boat will be chartered out – say 2 weeks per annum-no more - £850 per day.
4) Boat B will be fully overhauled/antifouled/ polished before delivery
5) I’ve omitted similar features


Both boats are 1999 :-


..........................................Boat A.......................................Boat B
Vendor .................private via Brokerage ................S/seeker agency part -ex
Engines.................3 x VP KAD44 .......................... 3 x Yanmar 300
Hrs ......................235........................................... 400+
Gennie...................N ............................................Y
AC + Heat ............ N.............................................Y
Radar................... N..............................................Simrad 3D
Diesel de-buy sys...N..............................................Y
Leccies..................Gps/Plotter/Pilot.........................Cetrek 775 and 930/940
Icemaker...............N..............................................Y
Cockpit CD sys......N .............................................. Y
Head.....................Manual....................................... Vacuum with holding tank
Security.................? .............................................. Combi safe
Price......................£150k vat paid............................ £175k ex-VAT (wb £206k if
VAT-paid)


<font color=black>I am WHAT I say I am

 

[hlb]

Re: A Boating Topic - HONEST

You seem to be putting a hell of a big toe in the water for a learner and making all sorts of asumptions. Re chartering, thinking of selling half before you've bought it. Sounds very complicated. Can you not do like the rest of us and buy something afordable then sell it if it's not to your liking. Would not like some one else playing with my toy!!

<font color=blue>Haydn

 

[EME]

Re: A Boating Topic - HONEST

Yes overcomplicated the topic (again).
/forums/images/icons/wink.gif
Chartering is only to make - VAT-free a possibility on a second hand boat..
Vendor will commit days to 'demonstrate' to prospective clients due to high-spec on boat.
Affordable is OK. but after the time we have prevaricated we should have got the right decision at last... if not we sell !!

I've decided just wanted to see what others might have done out of general interest.


<font color=black>I am WHAT I say I am

 

[wakeup]

Re: A Boating Topic - HONEST

Hey Learner,

SWMBO and I as you know will probably have a base down near La Nap real soon (Subject to contrat etc)

So we were thinking of doing a deal with a charter company down there for access to a boat for say 10 days per annum at a guaranteed reduced rate paid up front each year.

Rather than sell a share in the boat, why not offer up slices of time at guaranteed rates. We would go for something like that.

Benefits would be you would still own the boat 100%, you could demonstrate up front to the the Tax man a guaranteed revenue stream and customer base, you could cut out the broker and subsequent fees, you'll get your revenue even if the subscribers don't show up to use the boat. Easier to sell in small chunks also and if it doesn't work for you with any particular subscriber you can decline to offer them the same deal the following year or refund them the days outstanding if they really piss you off.

Just a thought!!

yada yada..

 

[wakeup]

Re: A Boating Topic - HONEST

Learner,

having read the specs, these boats seem to be chalk n cheese, there must me atleast £50k worth of difference between these two boats in terms of equipment. I would go for B just because it's got Yanmars rather than Volvo's let alone all the 'goodies' that boat B is endowed with..


yada yada..

 

[tcm]

Re: A Boating Topic - HONEST

I'd like to think i'd go for boat b, but in reality i dunno.

I justified large (more cruising/livaboard) boat due to holidays free and no acomm needed etc etc....you're obviously not able to do the same since living nearby, and are on the treadmill of if we are looking at this...why not that?....and if not that...then what about?....

Prasps i shdn't saythis but your swmbo is secretly dead scared and/or not interested. She wants to be interested, and not scared cos she is very loving and supportive swmbo. But really, she doesnae want a boat. Don't believe me? Try this. Announce on arrival home that after all, you've decided NOT to buy a big boat and see what she says. She might protest a bit, but you've decided and that's that. I bet she'll (fairly soon) say "well, if that's what you really really think, alright then". I bet she WON'T say at any point "eh? well, up yours, i'm going to do my day skipper and bash around the sea in someone else's boat anyway no matter what you do yer skinflint chicken". Er mind you this might work for quite a feewround here but ahem anyway, you more than most, imho, no offence etetc.

Best for you i believe would be a sellable day cruiser, diesel, quickish, skiable 26ish footer with sunpad, cuddy cabin, bogette, icebox, space for mates, easy way of geting on/off boat for swimming and only go out when it's dead calm, which means safe and sound pre-11.45. Stay in port de cannes (ch 12 not normal ch 9) do lunch and go shopping on rue d'antibes, bumble back as late as poss 6pmish as the wind dies, or leavit and take a cab. Dry berth in the Port Inland from october to april. Buy a BMW Z1 with (some of) the spare loot. Use some of the other loot to chip in with us on private planes for gatwickless weekends biggin-cannes. Occassionally repeat nice day out on our boat, but this time praps to bay of Cannes with lower loony-count.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: A Boating Topic - HONEST

You have to compare the inc VAT prices in both cases, although your own cash outlay may not be all that different between each boat, because when you come to resell, anybody buying Boat B from you will probably have to pay the VAT
Basically, to bring Boat A upto Boat B spec will cost you about £25k all in so, financially speaking, its a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. Its Boat A as there's about £30k difference in price effectively. Also, I dont know how many Yanmar engined S48's were built; my guess is that more Volvo engined S48's were built so the Volvo engined boat might be better for resale or selling half of. Plus the fact that I'm sure Volvo service is far more readily available in SoF than Yanmar. So, whatever learned members of this forum say, the Volvos win for me
Yes, there is an advantage in terms of peace of mind and some limited warranty buying Boat B and you dont have the hassle of buying and fitting the extra kit to Boat B. But, on the other hand, my gut feeling is that Boat A will be easier to resell as its VAT paid. Some buyers shy away from ex VAT boats believing them to trashed ex charter boats
The big unknown, however, is how far each vendor will move on price. I think my strategy would be to go to Sunseeker and say that you are considering Boat A at effectively £30k less so what would be their very best price seeing as you're a cash buyer. At the same time, ask the broker handling Boat A what he thinks you could get the boat for, ask him how keen the seller is, has he got a new boat coming etc. Then compare the prices again
One other factor. If Boat A is not Brit registered, it will have to be Brit registered to get a UK marine mortgage so reckon on another £1k for the costs of doing that plus the fact that it may be wise to use a local lawyor to handle the sale. Reckon on another £1k for that

 

[jfm]

Re: A Boating Topic - HONEST

Get boat A imho. There's a straight 25k saving, so that would pay for genny aircon CD radar etc etc and they will all be brand new. And if you dont like the boat after 1 season you will not have to buy that stuff in any case. Except the bog - you would need to get a proper bog asap imho.

The VAT saving might be a bit illusory - when you come to sell you will only get an ex-VAT price, and in the meantime you will have expended all that effort maintaining the VAT-free status, so boat B is even more expensive than the headline price imho.

Boat A looks in fab condition from the pics, which is consistent with only 200 hours. B must be a bit more worn out.

 

[tcm]

Re: But re boat b

I wonder if the sunseekerery bods know how to maintain the vat-free status (such as you buy the entire company the owns the boat), and also have a queue of peeps ready to rent the boat like they did last year? You may also need a skipper cos it won't be that easy for average punter to steer that lot around without whacking it.

 

[wakeup]

Re: A Boating Topic - HONEST

Err TCM not quite sure if your reply was aimed at me or Learner, so I will answer on the basis it was aimed at me.

First of all My SWMBO is very much into boats and boating. She has an ICC and is quite happy going out in the rough stuff at home. She is often the one that pushes to go out when the conditions are not ideal. I am the fairweather boater. We are both new to boating and bought a small maxum to learn in the UK. We live on a marina in cardiff bay and our boat is moored right out side our house and we can therefore go out at the drop of a hat most of the year round. Now the Bay has developed we very often go out to dinner or for a few beers on the boat as there are now plenty of restaruants and bars all with pay n display moorings ( I think these must be the only pay n display moorings in the UK?) So we are firmly committed boaters. We will be getting a bigger boat for the UK to use throughout the summer, probably either a Targa30 or I quite fancy the new Cranchi 33.

However we also want to spend more time in the SoF and are in the process of buying a place between Grasse and LaNap. We don't want to have to choose between having a boat in either SoF or UK. We would actually want both. For lots of reasons, we will always be spending the summers at home in the UK and therefore for those reasons most of our boating will be done there.

So having decided for a variety of personal and professional reasons that we will have a base in the SoF we definetly don't want that base to be a boat. BUT when the budget permits probably in 2004 as having a new house n pool being built through 2003 in Sof, then we may consider buying aboat down there. But it would actually make more sense to rent a boat when were down there becasue otherwise we will have a sh1t load of capital tied up and not being used excatly when it shold be and then having to contemplate chartering etc.

We will follow the good advice from the forum and try and get a berth first and then would probaly by a day boat as you've suggested.

So in a long winded way I am trying to say that we are not whimping out of making a serious comittment to motor boating. We love it but becasue of OUR circumstances it doesn't suit us to chuck a couple of sticks into a gin palace especially when you look at the ROI. And having done that then go about giving others a hard time about not making a serious committment to boating and then offering to sell them a third of my boat for half a stick;-)


Anyway way why do I feel as though I have to justify myself to a bunch of people I don't even know. Jeesh this forum can get to you it really can.... I am off to polish my revolver, I may be some time.


yada yada..

 

[EME]

Re: A Boating Topic - HONEST

Wakeup

No problem...it ws aimed at me !!!!

It was in fact a very incisive , accurate , thought-provoking analyis of MY SWMBO, jut sent to the wrong person! I haven't replied to him, yet, as I'm musing on not whether how right or wronghe is (he's not) but on how far I'll push my missus with my obsession...

Interesting call.




<font color=black>I am WHAT I say I am

 

[tcm]

heck i\'ve gorn and dunnit now

Noo, sorry wakeup, twas at learner, not you! Shd've done this by PM, sorry all. No offence intended.

Bit of explaining needed on my side re the selling third of leopard, praps. Fact is, with kids at school and wifey not wanting to spoil their happy school life, we're stuck to school hols. So i can sell a third (or even half) to someone who could have the thing the whole of september, half july, bits of august, most of june, cos i'm not there. It's be like reneeting out a parking space or a berth when you aren';t there - it costs nothing, and wins otherwise dead money. Indeed it'd be better to have the boat used a bit duringthat time, instead of sitting in same place gently rotting. It's not a running out of money thing, altho sure, money's always handy, but i mean i'm not ooer hell tranna save money to make the numbers add up. And of course if i sell portions now, one gets back the lesser portions later, so it sort-of comes out in the wash.

I feel bad at how my post came over and will prepare myself for being shot and take it like a wimp.

 

[wakeup]

Re: heck i\'ve gorn and dunnit now

Hey no problem, my reply wasn't a mr angry reply, at least I hope it didn't come across that way. I simply wanted you guys, in particular you, jfm and learner to understand our personal boaty and SoF strategy and would welcome comment cause I know you guys know the SoF and boating.

I also enjoy your banter and irony and I am big enough and ugly enough to take any sort of leg pulling.

This sometimes is a realy crap way to communicate because words can be taken the wrong way. I have an unfortunate way of delivery facts in written form that sometimes look like a rant. I think with recent events on the forum we've all become far too sensitive and cautious.

I am not wound up at all and by the way the revolver comment was meant to indicate that I was going off to shoot myself not you..

You are most welcome to comment on my nationality, my SWMBO, my choice of boats, wines etc etc




yada yada..

 

[duncan]

Re: A Boating Topic - HONEST

hey tcm you have been looking at my boat - better description than the salesman.
only real issue would be the hard top ....
lol