A boat
- Thread starter Wansworth
- Start date
Wansworth
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I bought a s/h book years ago all about Captain Drake…..sailing well before the world war2
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Good philosophy 
veshengro
Well-Known Member
I'm just glad there are still people about like him. If that boat has been afloat and in use for 50 years + he obviously made a good job of the hull build.Good philosophy
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
He is right about ferro cement …too many bodge jobs gave the material a bad name
veshengro
Well-Known Member
There was one that used to lay at Rye years ago, her decks covered with junk and her hull all lumpy and bumpy and streaked with rust bleeds from the steel skeleton. Someone tried to tidy it up by painting the hull white gloss...Ended up looking like a badly iced Wedding cake. 
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
I used to sail on a friend's ferro-concrete boat, and attended ferro rallies in England and the Netherlands, so have seen a wide variety of ferro quality and also boat types - gaff/bermudan, sporty looking yachts, world-girdlers, fishing smack replicas, etc.
Among those I've encountered have been a few absolutely gorgeous boats, especially a flush-decked 40(ish?) footer called 'Dutch Concrete'. Not just the hull finish and deck/rig fit-out, but the interior was way better than the average volume-built GRP boat. The owner was a Dutch boatbuilder, and it was both for his own and use as a demonstrator in the hope of getting commissions for ferro boats for his boatyard.
I know Windboats of Wroxham built ferro-concrete boats, but I don't know whether it was a lot of them, nor how good they were.
There are some quite OK amateur ferro boats, and some absolute dogs offensive to the eye and any idea of safety (the latter are probably all by now abandoned or serving as liveaboards).
Among those I've encountered have been a few absolutely gorgeous boats, especially a flush-decked 40(ish?) footer called 'Dutch Concrete'. Not just the hull finish and deck/rig fit-out, but the interior was way better than the average volume-built GRP boat. The owner was a Dutch boatbuilder, and it was both for his own and use as a demonstrator in the hope of getting commissions for ferro boats for his boatyard.
I know Windboats of Wroxham built ferro-concrete boats, but I don't know whether it was a lot of them, nor how good they were.
There are some quite OK amateur ferro boats, and some absolute dogs offensive to the eye and any idea of safety (the latter are probably all by now abandoned or serving as liveaboards).
ducked
Well-Known Member
I did a week on a ferro ketch, maybe 60 ft or so, on the West coast of Scotland callad, IIRC, Korryvreckan, built by the skipper for charter business. Seemed fine to my inexperienced eye, though there was a very little rust bleed around the clipper bows which MIGHT have been symptomatic of an underlying problem.
The technique would seem to be inherently vulnerable, though I'm unclear whether its more or less inherently vulnerable than, say a balsa cored hull or deck.
The technique would seem to be inherently vulnerable, though I'm unclear whether its more or less inherently vulnerable than, say a balsa cored hull or deck.
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
In comparison to the permanence of, say, a traditional wooden or steel boat/ship?
How old do you think the reinforced concrete bridges you drive or walk across are?
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
Or the dome of the Pantheon (Roman!)?In comparison to the permanence of, say, a traditional wooden or steel boat/ship?
How old do you think the reinforced concrete bridges you drive or walk across are?
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
But definitely stay away from those awful GRP boats with their vulnerable bolt-on or encapsulated keels! 
veshengro
Well-Known Member
I went aboard a 45 foot + Ferro Boat in Kalamata in Greece years ago. She was ketch rigged with a nice clipper bow like the one in Wansey's video. Built and sailed by an ex Oyster fisherman out of Leigh Beck on Canvey Island. She was so well finished that without a close look it was impossible to tell she was Ferro. Fitted out beautifully below, she had a massive old Gardner Diesel and a prop the size of a dustbin lid, and his ability to handle his boat in a confined Marina was impressive.
ducked
Well-Known Member
Or a boat.That was my first thought, but IIRC it's not steel reinforced.
ducked
Well-Known Member
Encapsulated keels are reasonably analogous to a ferro hull and I would tend to stay away from them.But definitely stay away from those awful GRP boats with their vulnerable bolt-on or encapsulated keels!
Bolt-on keels arent (are reasonably dialogous?) and I have three of them
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
Well, there is that!
But it's still keeping the water on one side and air on the other 2,000 years later, and amazingly remains the world's largest unreinforced concrete dome.
To, er, reinforce Ducked's original point, though, I guess it would be unlikely to have survived that long had it been steel reinforced!
And to reinforce my point, avoid reinforced concrete if you want your boat to last 2,000 years!
ducked
Well-Known Member
IF I had a GRP boat with a rotten balsa cored deck, I have wondered about using concrete (perhaps with glass microspheres as aggregate) as an infill. Would be interesting to try it, but I believe the Trident 24 doesn't make much use of lightweight core materialsWell, there is that!
But it's still keeping the water on one side and air on the other 2,000 years later, and amazingly remains the world's largest unreinforced concrete dome.
To, er, reinforce Ducked's original point, though, I guess it would be unlikely to have survived that long had it been steel reinforced!
And to reinforce my point, avoid reinforced concrete if you want your boat to last 2,000 years!
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
I seem to recall that ferrocement mimics the distribution of weight found in big wooden boats
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
My point is that no method of construction of boats (or anything else, for that matter) is permanent.
All have points of vulnerability, and all will eventually fail. The question is how vulnerable and how quickly.
Keel boats will eventually waste away. Wood erodes and rots and is eaten by creatures, and its fastenings/glue will eventually fail.
The steel reinforcement in ferro-cement will eventually rust, and how quickly will depend on how well it is insulated from water (i.e., how well built it is). The big challenge with ferro-boats is knowing how well it was built, and hence whether it will likely have a long or short life, and assessing the current state of the steelwork requiring specialist equipment and knowledge.
Even GRP and concrete itself will eventually fail, though.
I think encapsulated keels and balsa cored GRP are a slightly different case, in they are not (in the normal lifespan of a GRP boat) an inevitable deterioration. They will be good for a human lifetime and are only a problem if they were not properly built or there is damage to the GRP allowing water in.
Balsa cores are mainly vulnerable because owners didn't/don't appreciate their vulnerabilities and some boatbuilders were incompetent, rather than it being inherently unsatisfactory. Luckily not often does it become a major problem, and is easily detected if it is.
Problems with encapsulated keels are quite rare, and only arise if
(a) the ballast inside is iron or steel, as opposed to lead; and
(b) the ferrous ballast is not completely protected internally by epoxy or polyester resin; and
(c) the keel sustains damage by impact or serious ongoing abrasion that allows ingress of water; and
(d) the keel damage remains undetected or untreated for an extended time.
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
Easier just to replace any failed balsa with plastic foam or GRP matrix (or even new balsa!). In principle it's an easy job, but if done internally it's horribly messy and access may be challenging.
Concrete would likely add a lot of weight, which would not be good at deck level. If not too concerned about weight, just simply add layers of GRP.
