50M of warp as a drogue?

[pcatterall]

Lots of recent interest in drogues, and plates etc. recently. I've done lots of reading as I wanted to see if I could/should have 'something on board' and a plan 'just in case it were ever needed'.

I've finished up with a Jimmy Green standard drogue in the expectation that I could deploy it for various circumstances.

Part of my reading has been Adlard Coles Heavy Weather Sailing. He mentions that running under bare poles his 34 foot yacht was still going to fast for the conditions ( 5 Knots)
He deployed 45M of warp which 'steadied her immediately'

I understand that this was just a line of warp and not a bundle, It seems strange to me that this would have any significant effect and I will appreciate opinions.

 

[Roberto]

, It seems strange to me that this would have any significant effect and I will appreciate opinions.

On my 41 boat, trailing behind 2x25m of thick rope under normal sailing conditions has hardly any effect on speed, ok possibly half a knot? (I have not measured). OTOH It's quite effective in washing them from vomit

Again, I have not measured anything, though "normal" amounts of rope trailed behind could easily be retrieved by hand, my humble guess is that forces involved can hardly have any significant effect on stabilising a boat under heavy seas. Now, trailing 200m of rope could have another effect, but I personally never tried.

 

[{151760}]

Trailing warps used to be considered a good tactic. I believe Robin Knox Johnston used the technique successfully on his circumnavigation. A 45m 12mm line represents a surface area of around 10 sqm, I think, which is a significant drag. They were often used in a bight.

 

[Halo]

"Streaming warps" was standard tactics before folks decided to make a few quid with purpose made kit. It has always been part of my mental list of options. If you start surfing down a big wave then the fact you are dragging several lines over the stern is bound to slow your acceleration. Also fixing each warp at either side of the cockpit on witches should balance things up.
It seems to me that using what you have on board for many options is the right approach.
Martin

 

[Spyro]

. They were often used in a bight.

I think that would make it a lot more effective. Out of interest you could try tying one end off to a cleat holding the other end and throwing the bite in. If it drags you over the stern then it works pretty well.

 

[Billjratt]

Hawser laid hemp will have more drag than braid, so perhaps to talk about length of drogue-line required is inappropriate.
However, hemp takes up more room than braid in the locker, so maybe we should be quantifying the criteria for streaming sea-anchors as dry volume (in cubic fathoms, or 'good lockers full').
Having sorted out that global issue, have you thought about how you would attach it to the boat and the possible need for weight(s)?
Also, as a used-to-be proud owner of a trailing generator, I should possibly mention that bringing any amount of line that was effective as a drogue back on board again is not for the faint-hearted.

 

[Wandering Star]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you just drag 50 metres of rope in a straight line, I think you make it fast on each quarter and then tow it in a loop. I've had to do this once, and whether I'm right or wrong in my understanding, it worked a treat.

 

[stranded]

Trailing warps used to be considered a good tactic. I believe Robin Knox Johnston used the technique successfully on his circumnavigation. A 45m 12mm line represents a surface area of around 10 sqm, I think, which is a significant drag. They were often used in a bight.

Struggling a bit with that arithmetic - isn't it around 1/2m2 if all of it was to face the direction of travel. But presumably only the bight really does? Not arguing with those old masters that have been mentioned above but it has always seemed counterintuitive to me. We have a (unused) Para Drogue.

Mark

 

[pcatterall]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you just drag 50 metres of rope in a straight line, I think you make it fast on each quarter and then tow it in a loop. I've had to do this once, and whether I'm right or wrong in my understanding, it worked a treat.

The article refers to deploying the warp attached to one cleat. I can see that a loop would have more drag and appreciate that this was probably substantial hemp but it just sounded like not enough drag.
That said Adlard Coles is known for telling it as it was and I accept it at face value........it worked!!

 

[{151760}]

Struggling a bit with that arithmetic - isn't it around 1/2m2 if all of it was to face the direction of travel. But presumably only the bight really does? Not arguing with those old masters that have been mentioned above but it has always seemed counterintuitive to me. We have a (unused) Para Drogue.

Mark

Maths is not my strong point. I did 2pixradiusxlength, using 5mm as radius.

 

[stranded]

Maths is not my strong point. I did 2pixradiusxlength, using 5mm as radius.

It's not mine either - I am sure someone will be along with the right answer!

 

[LittleSister]

50 metres of chain (with or without an anchor on the end of it) would have more of an effect.

 

[Joker]

Why not tie an anchor to the end of your trailing line?

 

[William_H]

Most of us mere mortal sailors would not normally expect to need a drogue. However if something like a long length of warp which could be carried for other purposes including extending an anchor rode, towing line or spinnacker sheets then the dragging the warp idea seems to be well worth a try. I would think that tieing something on the end preferably heavy to keep the warp in the water (not skipping across the top) would be useful.
I do often find sheets etc dragging in the water and know there is not much drag really. But on the other hand I had an endless spin sheet disappear while sailing. Obviously one end had fallen in the water and it dragged it's way out of blocks etc. Obviously Davy Jones fancied a nice bit of rope.
I note recent thread on chain plates for drogue towing and obviously a warp would have far less drag so less concern about what it is tied to. It also begs the question are we trying to slow the boat down or to keep it stern to the wind ie to aids directional stability.
So yes with no idea just how effective a warp would be I think it must help if ever you think you need it.
all this from one who has never and never will need a drogue. olewill

 

[alan_d]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you just drag 50 metres of rope in a straight line, I think you make it fast on each quarter and then tow it in a loop. I've had to do this once, and whether I'm right or wrong in my understanding, it worked a treat.

Yes, and that would get over the problem of recovering it - cast off from one quarter and recover from the other (assuming that the single line would produce much less drag than the bight).

 

[{151760}]

50 metres of chain (with or without an anchor on the end of it) would have more of an effect.

Perhaps, but I think an additional benefit of towing a bight of warp is that it stays near the surface which helps to disrupt the following waves, reducing the chances of them breaking on the stern. I can't remember off-hand where I read that. I've never needed to try it.

 

[{151760}]

I've just checked in RKJ's book "A World of my Own". He used several warps streamed from a Samson Post on the foredeck, led down either side of the boat. He used several, the longest being 120 fathoms, which is 220 or so metres! The purpose was to keep the stern of the boat into the weather, a Force 10 storm, in conjunction with a sheeted-in-hard storm jib. He doesn't mention speed, but it works perfectly; the boat lies comfortably and safely, reducing the impact of the waves. He says that the warps skipping over the surface seem to reduce the breaking tendency of the waves.

 

[thinwater]

Isn't this like MOB recovery? It does less good to talk about it that to go out and try it in both fair weather (to figure out the rigging) and somewhat challenging weather (to understand the effects).

Go try it, before you need it. Don't talk about it on the internet!

-----

Yes, I have done both, and they are very educational.

Towing a warp is the vary lowest drag sort of drogue, just a slight steadying hand. To increase the drag, add weight and bulk to the center of bight. Make sure it is on a chafe guard. Never felt the need, but I imagine it could ease the steering on a long downhill run in brisk winds.

 

[{151760}]

Go try it, before you need it. Don't talk about it on the internet!

I think the whole point of this forum is to talk about things.

 

[thinwater]

True enough. And to listen. I've learned a ton on forums.

MOB drills are a pet concern of mine. I read so often of sailors that simply can't get a man out of the water. The other fun thing is practicing the importance of not loosing sight. Many crew members don't understand just how vital a job it is when asked to "keep that in sight." They glance away and cannot require. Not easy.

So I like to encourage people to go try what they have learned. I promise you, there are always a few details that are different in the field and different on your boat.