40ft boat and marina fees

MountainGoat said:
That would have scared the crap out of me unless I’d already got loads of experience and at least Day Skipper, otherwise ISTM that someone in that position will be an insurer’s worst nightmare.
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Many people including some on here buy boats of that size as a first boat. It is nowhere near as scary as you imagine if you go about it the right way. In fact in some respects it can be easier to learn on a bigger boat. Just because somebody is a first time buyer does not necessarily mean that they do not have experience. For example some people get their experience either on other peoples' boats of by chartering and might never have sailed on a small boat.

Insurers are unlikely to refuse insurance. as any analysis of claims will tell, the number of claims that arise from lack of competence or inexperience is minimal. The vast majority are for damage from the elements or genuine accidents. This does not mean that they do not take into account the type of use, for example extended cruising outside uK coastal areas where boat type and skipper experience will have an impact on premiums or restrictive conditions.
 
Thanks for all the reply's.
- I will take your experience as more valid over my internet searches - but several for the med have turned up 10-12 and 12-15m categories e.g. lagos (http://www.marlagos.pt/EN/marina0105.aspx). I dont claim the rate is more for 12.1m (or equivalent in feet), just that the extra few cm tips you into a new (and expensive) bracket [for the ones i have investigated]. - The 11.99m on the SSR is a good idea! but im non resident so part 1 i believe.
- There are a couple of notes on 40ft, first im planning to liveaboard as much as possible (on the hook) and so want some comfort, but am aware of my (total) lack of experience. There are some nice boats just over 12m like hanse 400/418 but i think ill stick to <12m. Im a contractor currently out of work (single and no fixed abode, and not getting any younger) so im looking to move very quickly, i will try to get the rya courses done in October. Since getting afloat appears endlessly complicated, i will post new questions in separate threads (and will appreciate greatly your wisdom!). PS im currently in La Rochelle, waiting for the boat show.
 
laika said:
Careful now. You're calling into question a fundamental forum trope.
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I know. Can't help myself. Maybe the forum view will die out soon as members fall off their perches.

Really should go back and start again with 3 years in a National 12 followed by building an Enterprise in my garage etc.

Just imagine how good a sailor I would be now and at last gained enough credits to buy a 35'!
 
Tranona said:
Insurers are unlikely to refuse insurance. as any analysis of claims will tell, the number of claims that arise from lack of competence or inexperience is minimal.
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This is surprising given the number of times I’ve sat on deck and watched people fail to berth their brand new 38 footer even though it’s got a bow thruster, and then prang the bow into the pontoon when they finally Line it up.

ETA: and the recent gelcoat repair I needed because my berth neighbour apparently can’t motor astern out of his berth without smacking his bow into my boat.

I moved berths after that.
 
Agree MDL measure each boat.

Just pulled into the Spanish marina at Hendaye and asked costs for 12 ish boat. Woman said it's strict 12.5m is €32 per night but 12.51 is €55 per night and they need ships registration papers to prove length.

Luckily big well protected harbour to anchor in!

Our 43 measures exactly 12.96m! It's 2005 vintag. Modern boats have vertical bows and a drop down transom as bathing platform and make better use of length than sugar scoop sterns and sloping bows
 
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MountainGoat said:
This is surprising given the number of times I’ve sat on deck and watched people fail to berth their brand new 38 footer even though it’s got a bow thruster, and then prang the bow into the pontoon when they finally Line it up.

ETA: and the recent gelcoat repair I needed because my berth neighbour apparently can’t motor astern out of his berth without smacking his bow into my boat.

I moved berths after that.
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All too easy to generalise from a specific and claim this is the norm. In doing so you are ignoring all the other tens of thousands of berthing activities that happen without any problems - most of which you don't see.
 
Tranona said:
All too easy to generalise from a specific and claim this is the norm. In doing so you are ignoring all the other tens of thousands of berthing activities that happen without any problems - most of which you don't see.
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Most of which are performed by experienced owners.

If someone needs a bow thruster to get a 38 foot boat bow-to into a marina berth in average conditions, then they need to take a course urgently, because they’re going to hit something.
 
MountainGoat said:
ETA: and the recent gelcoat repair I needed because my berth neighbour apparently can’t motor astern out of his berth without smacking his bow into my boat.

I moved berths after that.
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But did you claim for the gel repair or did the excess \NCB make it not worthwhile?
 
MountainGoat said:
Most of which are performed by experienced owners.

If someone needs a bow thruster to get a 38 foot boat bow-to into a marina berth in average conditions, then they need to take a course urgently, because they’re going to hit something.
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Its that attutude that causes damage.

It's macho to do it without a bow thruster but frankly I could not give a flying fig if the boat berthing next to me is using a bow thruster. I just want them to do it safely.

Many have easy berths but a number on the south coast have cross tides/strong tides/cross winds/restricted manoeuvring room.

I took extra berthing lessons on the Hamble on my first boat a 36', next one a 38' there were situations where a bow thruster would have helped and made berthing safer.

All these boats went out on charter and skippers abilities varied.

Modern boats have higher freeboard and windage. On current boat a 43' DS I have a bow thruster but try to berth it without using it - it's my get out of jail card.

I would encourage everyone to buy whatever is necessary to minimise damaging other boats which includes adequate ropes, plenty of fenders and if berthing in less than ideal conditions and a largish boat have a bow thruster!
 
MountainGoat said:
This is surprising given the number of times I’ve sat on deck and watched people fail to berth their brand new 38 footer even though it’s got a bow thruster, and then prang the bow into the pontoon when they finally Line it up.
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I know someone who bought a 38 footer as his first boat. He generated five major insurance claims while leaving the East Coast marina where he bought it. Last time I heard, it had not left the other East Coast marina where he took it in the five years since arriving there.

It really depends on whether buying a large boat is a well thought-out decision, based on an expected use pattern commensurate with skills and experience or whether it's just a matter of "Let's buy one of these boat things. Coo, we can afford a big one." In the case of the chap I mention above, it was an oldish second hand one which did not have the useful gizmos - principally a bow thruster - which one would expect on a newer boat of that size. His previous experience was a few dinghy sailing trips as a child.
 
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Sailfree said:
I took extra berthing lessons on the Hamble on my first boat a 36', next one a 38' there were situations where a bow thruster would have helped and made berthing safer.
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I specifically said average conditions.

If you can't manoeuvre a moderately sized boat on flat water with barely any breeze without the bow thruster going like mad, then it suggests your understanding of how the boat reacts to its helm is ... incomplete at best.

How can someone who can't pontoon bash when conditions are benign be expected to get into a marina when there's wind, or current, or both, and they're tired, and maybe there's a bit of a swell, without smashing half their neighbours' boats up?
 
Bav34 said:
Translation please.
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Pontoon bashing - getting your boat on and off a pontoon, the art of approaching, manoeuvring in a confined space, understanding the effects of current, wind, power etc. on the boat and how it will respond. Rope handling techniques, etc.. The sort of thing they spend a long time teaching on RYA courses.

Conditions - weather, current, swell, tiredness of crew, etc.

Benign - unthreatening, at or close to their best.

Therefore - someone who can't pontoon bash when conditions are benign = someone who has no clue how to manoeuvre their boat in a marina. I'm sure you've seen them - gaggle of people on deck, running about with ropes and (if you're lucky) fenders, boat hooks, etc, skipper expecting the boat to turn like a car and being surprised again and again when, every time, it doesn't. Arrival announced by repeated whirring of the bow thruster. Often draws a crowd of people who try to catch their lines and pull them in. Usually hits the pontoon with their bow, etc.
 
And I want to emphasise here that I'm far from perfect at this. I recall one particularly embarrassing incident when I misjudged the eddy current in the lock trying to depart from Sovereign Harbour and ended up sideways across the lock doing a five point turn.

And when I started out, I'm sure I terrified people when I got on and off a pontoon (glad we were on a swinging mooring back then, and in a 23 footer), but I went and took lessons before I got a bigger boat, and it helped. I am just glad I did start in a 23 footer because I shudder at the thoughts of the carnage I might have caused if I'd gone and bought a 40 foot boat and then tried to get it into a marina berth when I barely knew one end of a prop shaft from the other.
 
Mountain Goat.

We are all above average car drivers but anti lock brakes and radar distance control makes us even safer.

Yes I take pride in berthing sweetly and as I have a rear step off platform at stern usually berth stern to in a marina. However not everyone is above average and yes there are numpties (often those that shout at SWMBOs/crew) but I reiterate I don't mind how much they use a bow thruster to assist berthing providing they do it safely.
 
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