40 feet sailboat, liveaboard, Med tour, and more if affinity ;-)

BarryWhite

BarryWhite

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In view of a sailboat for liveaboard / voyage, I would like to consider your experience and opinion to help me to choose a comfortable, solid (low maintenance), safe and "fast" sailboat model, which is about 11 to 12 meter long, with minimum 2 cabins / ideally 3, with a headroom of min. 1m90, easy to sail solo / with two, and for less than 40K eur.
I know, I know, it's like looking for a "five-legged sheep", but I believe that with radioactivity and GMOs surrounding us it could be possible :)

The sailboats I spotted are the young "cruisers / racers" of the 80's - still the same "usual suspects":

- Sun Fizz: this is the first yacht I sailed with. I really liked this yacht. But in my memories the aft cabins are narrow...
Q : Do you know the exact size of the cabins?

- First 38: I have never sailed this boat before. I've read a lot of good things about this boat, especially about the Copeland family who sailed tens of thousands of miles. But also that there can be problem with the counter-moulding and that the aft cabins are narrow.
Q : Are they as narrow as those of the Sun Fizz? Do you know their size? Do you have any experience on this boat?

- Sigma 38: There are many good things to read about this British-build yacht (Best cruising yachts for £50,000 - boats.com ). I visited one in the Netherlands. It was in poor condition and the headroom and berth-length were a bit short for my 1m87. I think that with a bit of creativity it could be possible to lengthen one of the berths.
Q: Do you believe is it possible to lengthen the berths? Do you have any experience on this boat?

- Scanner 38: Swedish, well built, a large aft cabin, a small cockpit and often with teak deck :-(

In the newer "cruisers / racers" I have also spotted:
- Sun Fast 37: if the Covid allows it, I will have the opportunity to sail one at the end of April. However, often you can read that recent boats are less solid, and at the same time you can read about the exploits of the Dumard family who chose this boat for the Northwest-Passage (Les Dumard, père et fille, tentent le passage du Nord-Ouest à la voile - sorry for the French) or of the Norwegians who chose this boat for expeditions (Barba - Norwegian expedition sailing yacht).
You can find SF37s for 50K eur.
Q : Is this recent boat really less solid? Is the extra 10K really worth it compared to the beautiful curves of the 80s?

- There are certainly still a lot of boats to debate like the Dehler 38, Sun Legend, Sun Charm, First 405, etc.

Well, I'll let you shoot your comments. Thank you very much!
 
Sunfast37. Solidly built, safe in a seaway, modern layout, the favourite of charter operators and sailing schools. This boat is broader in the stern than the ones you mention from the 80s, thereby allowing two aft cabins of more generous dimensions than can be found in boats of an earlier generation. The fore-cabin is not a bad size either. You might find, with a little research, that the berths are long enough for you. Having sailed on one a couple of times, including a delivery from Dun Laoghaire to Baltimore, I would not hesitate to recommend the Sunfast over any of the other boats you mention.
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 and Sun Fast 37: reviewed - boats.com
Note the headroom spec in this one:
Jeanneau Sun Fast 37 | Yacht Charter
 
Here is a link to a search I did on Yachtworld for boats in the UK betwen 10 - 12 metres long, and less than Euros 40,000 in price.

(Sail) Boats For Sale Guernsey

And 75 boats came up - ok, some will not be suitable for you, but have a trawl through the list and see if any appeal to you.
You can also modify the search by changing the constraints, or adding some more.
 
I would say any of those you list are fine. I know the Sun Fizz 37 and Sigma 38 reasonably well. Wider aft cabins are in general a feature of more recent boats, so in Jeanneau terms you get more space in a sun shine 38 than a sun fizz, and more still in the late 90s Sun Odyssey.

There's a nice looking 38 at Why Boats in Hamble for £35k. That generation of Jeanneaus was a good one....you still see a lot of these and their Sun Magic 44 sisters going strong.

It may boil down to the boat that's at the right price, in the right condition, and where you want it.

40k isn't a lot to spend on these type of boats unless you allow extra for upgrades. Particularly if you want to do long passages single or double handed, you need a really good autopilot. Also all of these ladies are "of age" where you may be thinking about standing rigging, deck replacement, major engine overhaul and replacement...all of which can be done or outsourced, but you don't want them to be a surprise. The boat that's up-to-date with all these expensive items...is likely to be the one that offers you best value even if £10k more.

When you find a specific boat, ask the specific questions on here and on the owners association and Facebook groups etc.


Also for living aboard you may want battery and solar upgrades to power your upgraded fridge and various devices (or don't bother and be as comfortable as liveaboards presumably were when these boats were new).

Best of luck!
 
I've a lot of miles in a First 38 and several Sun Odyssey 37s (as @Clancy Moped says, same boat as the Sunfast really). Of the two I'd take the Jeanneau but only because it's newer, both are decent sailing boats. I've also sailed a Sigma 38, again a decent boat, but think the layout up and downstairs is better on the Jeanneau/Firsts.

edit. ps. The aft wc on the First looks appealing on a drawing. In real life it makes an ok oilskin locker.
 
anoccasionalyachtsman said:
I've a lot of miles in a First 38 and several Sun Odyssey 37s (as @Clancy Moped says, same boat as the Sunfast really). Of the two I'd take the Jeanneau but only because it's newer, both are decent sailing boats. I've also sailed a Sigma 38, again a decent boat, but think the layout up and downstairs is better on the Jeanneau/Firsts.

edit. ps. The aft wc on the First looks appealing on a drawing. In real life it makes an ok oilskin locker.
Click to expand...
Am I right in saying the Sun Fast has the main sheet traveller across the cockpit? If so, it's a pain in the backside for a sociable liveaboard life.
 
Clancy Moped said:
Am I right in saying the Sun Fast has the main sheet traveller across the cockpit? If so, it's a pain in the backside for a sociable liveaboard life.
Click to expand...
It is, but it's quite low down - easy to step over but you still have the sheet across the cockpit. (Neither that (too short) or the SO37 coachroof-mounted track really tick the box for me, but what boat is perfect?).
 
None of those really meet the requirements of a liveaboard that is Cheap, Low Maintenance (solid however you define it is not synonymous with low maintenance), Comfortable plus "fast" - although not sure why fast is important for a liveaboard in the Med when you motor more than sail and spend most of your time at anchor. Plus any performance gets killed once you have added a bimini, solar panels and 2 tons of stores, fuel water, personal belongings etc.

Just unrealistic to expect to buy a boat of this size that does not need aa heap of work for 40k - and any boat 30+ years old out there will need work so your 40k will need another 10-20k to fix and then not really be the most suited for liveaboard.

Have you ever lived aboard a small boat in the Med? if not suggest you at least try a couple of weeks' charter in the summer and then draw up your list of priorities.
 
Tranona said:
None of those really meet the requirements of a liveaboard that is Cheap, Low Maintenance (solid however you define it is not synonymous with low maintenance), Comfortable plus "fast" - although not sure why fast is important for a liveaboard in the Med when you motor more than sail and spend most of your time at anchor. Plus any performance gets killed once you have added a bimini, solar panels and 2 tons of stores, fuel water, personal belongings etc.

Just unrealistic to expect to buy a boat of this size that does not need aa heap of work for 40k - and any boat 30+ years old out there will need work so your 40k will need another 10-20k to fix and then not really be the most suited for liveaboard.

Have you ever lived aboard a small boat in the Med? if not suggest you at least try a couple of weeks' charter in the summer and then draw up your list of priorities.
Click to expand...
We did 18 years on a SO37 in the Med....worked for us.....
 
Tranona said:
None of those really meet the requirements of a liveaboard that is Cheap, Low Maintenance (solid however you define it is not synonymous with low maintenance), Comfortable plus "fast" - although not sure why fast is important for a liveaboard in the Med when you motor more than sail and spend most of your time at anchor. Plus any performance gets killed once you have added a bimini, solar panels and 2 tons of stores, fuel water, personal belongings etc.

Just unrealistic to expect to buy a boat of this size that does not need aa heap of work for 40k - and any boat 30+ years old out there will need work so your 40k will need another 10-20k to fix and then not really be the most suited for liveaboard.

Have you ever lived aboard a small boat in the Med? if not suggest you at least try a couple of weeks' charter in the summer and then draw up your list of priorities.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your comments ! The longest period I spend sailing in the Med was on a Sun Fizz for a period of one month. We were only 3 people onboard, so it was comfortable. The owner was traveling for 12 years on his boat. I remember that he advised to never exceed 40 feet to keep cost down.
I can understand that you have a lot of experience, maybe you want to share some more insights? :)
 
Clancy Moped said:
Don't disscount the Sun Odyssey 37. As for 'low maintenance' sorry, no such thing. BTW welcome to the fourm.
Click to expand...

18 years in the Med :cool:.
I guess you know your boat from inside out.
Is it a good liveaboard? Would you consider it as a "bluewater" should we want to travel a bit further than the Med ?
 
RJJ said:
I would say any of those you list are fine. I know the Sun Fizz 37 and Sigma 38 reasonably well. Wider aft cabins are in general a feature of more recent boats, so in Jeanneau terms you get more space in a sun shine 38 than a sun fizz, and more still in the late 90s Sun Odyssey.

There's a nice looking 38 at Why Boats in Hamble for £35k. That generation of Jeanneaus was a good one....you still see a lot of these and their Sun Magic 44 sisters going strong.

It may boil down to the boat that's at the right price, in the right condition, and where you want it.

40k isn't a lot to spend on these type of boats unless you allow extra for upgrades. Particularly if you want to do long passages single or double handed, you need a really good autopilot. Also all of these ladies are "of age" where you may be thinking about standing rigging, deck replacement, major engine overhaul and replacement...all of which can be done or outsourced, but you don't want them to be a surprise. The boat that's up-to-date with all these expensive items...is likely to be the one that offers you best value even if £10k more.

When you find a specific boat, ask the specific questions on here and on the owners association and Facebook groups etc.


Also for living aboard you may want battery and solar upgrades to power your upgraded fridge and various devices (or don't bother and be as comfortable as liveaboards presumably were when these boats were new).

Best of luck!
Click to expand...

Thank you for your advice.
About the SunShine, I visited a refitted one in the Netherlands, unfortunately the standing headroom was too low for me :( It has been sold for 28K euro, a bargain!

About the Sun Magic 44, this is a beautiful boat. I'm just wondering if the extra 4 to 6 feet and 3 tons will not make it a much more costly boat in terms of maintenance, insurance and marina ?
 
wully1 said:
I had a 2 cabin First 38 for many years - best boat I’ve ever owned. Very seaworthy, easy to maintain and much better built than the modern efforts..
Click to expand...

I never saw a First 38 in two cabins :confused:
Is it the First 38 that was build till 1985, or is it the later one: the 38S5 with the Stark design ?
 
BarryWhite said:
Thank you for your advice.
About the SunShine, I visited a refitted one in the Netherlands, unfortunately the standing headroom was too low for me :( It has been sold for 28K euro, a bargain!

About the Sun Magic 44, this is a beautiful boat. I'm just wondering if the extra 4 to 6 feet and 3 tons will not make it a much more costly boat in terms of maintenance, insurance and marina ?
Click to expand...
It's not the few feet of length. it's the square feet and cubic feet that cost.
 
BarryWhite said:
18 years in the Med :cool:.
I guess you know your boat from inside out.
Is it a good liveaboard? Would you consider it as a "bluewater" should we want to travel a bit further than the Med ?
Click to expand...
Sold her 3 years ago, just waiting for global shit to chill out before our next move. Just so you know what's possible, we had a watermaker, 4.5kW Kohler fixed genset, and just about every other home comfort you can imagine. If needed we could have spent 24/7 on the hook.
 
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