4 Hours Labour for changing 2 alternator belts??

volvopaul said:
I

" Glorified truck engines " just shows your lack of knowledge on the kad series and Volvo engines in general .
Never has the 2.4 or 3.6 litre block been used for any other applications other than pure marine use.
I suggest you tread wisely working on your investment. While I don't agree with two men and 4 hours to change 2 belts , no where has travel time or location of the boat in relation to the company slagged off been disclosed . No company can travel to site for nothing .
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I'm not arguing with you VP, but is it really true that the basic block isn't used anywhere else and is cast specifically for marine engines, I wouldn't have thought the investment would be worth it. There are no specific needs for a block to make it purely marine - or are there?
 
Just for info, I started out as an aircraft engineer and my point was that these engines (kad) engines are very easy to work on and generally simple engines, similar to trucks (maybe not the same cc. Etc bla bla...)just adapted to marine application. Hence my term Glorified. (For a rich market!)
I didn't specify which car, I was just making a point about what could be possibly done in 4 hours!
The location may have something to do with it, however i would be even more annoyed if they charged me 2x travel time as there are two workers! Just more of a waste of time!!!
 
A detailed invoice would clarify this thread
It may explain when the time charged started ie from dealers premises or within the same marina where were the keys located what covers furniture carpets required moving the actual time to replace the belts could be small part of the total time .
We can only speculate but why spoil a good headline!
 
You need to see a full itemised breakdown to make a judgement on this,
I have no knowledge on servicing Volvo marine engines but the charges are unlikely to be for just the 'phisical' side of the job.
As an example, I'm a field engineer who lives in Dorset, today's job was to replace a card in some communication equipment in CORNWALL. :-0
So that's 3 +hour drive to site. Open site up and liase with two different customers (20 mins) do job (5 mins) hand equipment back and then do the paperwork remotely logging on to the companies BDN (20 mins) Asset transfer complete and its job done, lock up site and a 3 +hour drive home.
 
In our business we levy labour by the day or sometimes by a part day in mostly 1/2 day lumps.

It is not just the time on the boat that the engineers have to be paid for. Say they clock on at 8AM, spend 1/2 hour getting the parts they need for the day along with necessary briefings, method statements, risk assessments, etc, they then have to travel to the boat to do the job. After the job is finished they have to travel back to base. They are being paid for all this working time.

Also once they get there they have to open up the engine bay and familiarise themselves with the locations of everything.

So yes if you know you boat and your engines then perhaps it is a 2-3 hour task (I have never changed belts on a KAD), but you will not thank them for doing the job badly, untidily or unsafely. My vote is that 4 hours for having 2 men attend (2 hours each) is perfectly fair and reasonable. I would have assessed this as 1/2 day each, so a full day in total, but my business is not Marine engineering, just my hobby (now).

The other option is get yourself on a diesel course and do this task yourself. If you need to change a belt at sea the engineers will not be available, and then is not the time to learn.
 
I'm not a professional mechanic, but I could probably change an alternator belt on KAD engines in 30 minutes per side, including re-tensioning the other belts.
BUT
as others have said, that doesn't include any travel time, time to collect parts, registering as a contractor at marina, finding the boat, opening canvas/covers/furniture, making tea, replacing canvas/covers/furniture etc.

On the other hand, billing for two engineers just to change alternator belts seems a bit daft: doubling up for the non-core task time.
 
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PCUK said:
I'm not arguing with you VP, but is it really true that the basic block isn't used anywhere else and is cast specifically for marine engines, I wouldn't have thought the investment would be worth it. There are no specific needs for a block to make it purely marine - or are there?
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Volvo tried just once after they developed the IDI TD40 into the the DI TD41 to use the engine outside the marine market. The Volvo FL4 7.5 tonne truck was launched in 1986 with 3.59 liter TD41. I was involved in a long term evaluation of the Volvo FL4 and it was without doubt a huge flop. Little short stroke TD41 had no torque so you needed to drive it like you hated it to make progress, resulting in dreadful fuel consumption. Truck was uncompetitively heavy despite small engine and hugely expensive. Ford Cargo, Leyland DAF and Mercedes were around £16k in 1987, TD41 powered FL4 was £19k! Volvo truck only managed to sell around 200 annually compared with 6,500 Ford Cargos.

By 1989 the engine had developed a reputation for eating turbochargers and Volvo Truck dropped the model, so ended the TD41's excursion outside the marine market.
 
To be fair jobs on boats often take quite a bit longer than you might expect due to access and the almost inevitable complications so I think I could probably live with the two hours for one mechanic if getting parts, travel etc is included. But two people? No, I don't think so.

As has already been said a half hour job per side for an amateur such as me.....maybe a little longer if there was a complication such as a seized thread or, perhaps more likely in my case, dropping a spanner under the engine where it will inevitably end up in the most inaccessible spot! :)
 
Latestarter1 said:
Volvo tried just once after they developed the IDI TD40 into the the DI TD41 to use the engine outside the marine market. The Volvo FL4 7.5 tonne truck was launched in 1986 with 3.59 liter TD41. I was involved in a long term evaluation of the Volvo FL4 and it was without doubt a huge flop. Little short stroke TD41 had no torque so you needed to drive it like you hated it to make progress, resulting in dreadful fuel consumption. Truck was uncompetitively heavy despite small engine and hugely expensive. Ford Cargo, Leyland DAF and Mercedes were around £16k in 1987, TD41 powered FL4 was £19k! Volvo truck only managed to sell around 200 annually compared with 6,500 Ford Cargos.

By 1989 the engine had developed a reputation for eating turbochargers and Volvo Truck dropped the model, so ended the TD41's excursion outside the marine market.
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There were industrial versions of both D30+D40 as I recall but never saw many except the D30 used as a suction engine on road sweepers but hanging a huge fan on them did crankshafts zero favours and did not last long although some did better than others
 
I'd be interested to know if there's a recommended Volvo "book time" for replacing an alternator belt.

4 hours does sound a bit strong, but when we all say it only takes 30 minutes to change a belt do we mean from stepping onto the boat (which we may never have seen before) to stepping off having replaced & tensioned the belts and run the engines up to working temps to check everything is OK?
 
The time given to do a Range Rover Sport turbo is 12hrs which means taking the body off changing the turbo and replacing the body.
 
Aardee said:
I'd be interested to know if there's a recommended Volvo "book time" for replacing an alternator belt.

4 hours does sound a bit strong, but when we all say it only takes 30 minutes to change a belt do we mean from stepping onto the boat (which we may never have seen before) to stepping
off having replaced & tensioned the belts and run the engines up to working temps to check everything is OK?
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There is a book time for everything but it's based on an engine in a workshop with 10ft of space around it!! Which means nothing when the adjusters are partially seized up along with the alternator top mount bolt. Any VP engineer will concur this with me. Once on a vp course an engineer was shown a task , he disagreed with the instructor and stated no way that could be carried out on xxxx make of boat , he then duly dragged the biggest roll cab tool box 100 mm away from the engine and asked the instructor from VP how he would make the days task happen . Thus is my job most days .
 
volvopaul said:
There is a book time for everything but it's based on an engine in a workshop with 10ft of space around it!! Which means nothing when the adjusters are partially seized up along with the alternator top mount bolt. Any VP engineer will concur this with me. Once on a vp course an engineer was shown a task , he disagreed with the instructor and stated no way that could be carried out on xxxx make of boat , he then duly dragged the biggest roll cab tool box 100 mm away from the engine and asked the instructor from VP how he would make the days task happen . Thus is my job most days .
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Those two engineers need a burger then man. Feed the poor beggars
 
So what we really need is a robot,which will work for nothing,has articulated arms,eyes on stalks, infinate patience, the abililty to diagnose from the customers vague description of buzzes squeeks and rattles,exactly what is wrong and to give an instant price,plus the ability to fixed such faults within the first ten seconds of opening the van doors.
Further, to be able to rectify 10 years of poor servicing and previous owners bodges for under a fiver and to be able to smile at comments from "experts" who probably earn their living from pushing buttons in a centrally heated office somehere. :):):) IMHO.
Ps.All bets are off with regards outdrives,which are the work of the devil anyway.Anybody noticed a reduction in the constant stream of outdrive problems on the forum...No ,me neither.
You would have thought that with the gradual disapperance of the ancient 270/290 and "Black Anchor" Mercruiser stuff,that all those "modern" materials now used would have made newer outdrives more reliable.
Nurse,bring my pills now please.
 
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