4.8mm monel pop rivets

As you say, it's been discussed here before...

...I too bought pricey monel, keenly accepting it's superior, though I wonder whether my use of it will ever justify the extra strength and additional cost of Duralac, etc.

But I suppose rivets which hold spreader-bases, may be under more stress in use than simple boom fittings.

I think the monel rivets were sold in packs of five...and the spreader-base needs only four...tempting to test a rivet at home, to see how inadequate the riveter is to the task.
 
dancrane said:
...tempting to test a rivet at home, to see how inadequate the riveter is to the task.
Click to expand...

I've literally just gone through this.

The reason I used monel was because I asked Z Spars (who make my mast) and that's what they specified.

We were using a mixture of 4.8mm and 6mm monel rivets.

We tried first with a normal handyman style riveter. It was totally inadequate for the job and so I went and got a lazy tongue riveter instead which proved up to it.

The handyman style riveter may manage it with one of the bodges suggested above (G clamp or extend the arms), or it may just break the riveter.

My advice having just done this exact thing is either use softer rivets or get a riveter that's up to the job.

Hope this helps.
 
Cheers Mr Ming. Actually, a glance at the Ebay page isn't as dispiriting as I'd expected - a variety of non-pliers-style riveters at reasonable-seeming prices, take a look...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/hand-riveter

...but considering how long this minor matter has already taken to sort out, I'm keen not to buy something infuriatingly sub-standard. Anybody got any recommendation from these?
 
dancrane said:
Cheers Mr Ming. Actually, a glance at the Ebay page isn't as dispiriting as I'd expected - a variety of non-pliers-style riveters at reasonable-seeming prices, take a look...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/hand-riveter

...but considering how long this minor matter has already taken to sort out, I'm keen not to buy something infuriatingly sub-standard. Anybody got any recommendation from these?
Click to expand...

The top one looks very like the one I've got. It'll do the job but you won't be handing it down the generations, put it that way!
 
Good thoughts, thanks. But irritating to have paid Screwfix £18 for a tool which doesn't do what I need, and the like of which seems to be on sale on Ebay for under £5.

I guess once I've bought a more powerful riveter, the little unused pliers-variety & 700 rivets will be pretty much redundant. That's my mate's birthday present sorted. :rolleyes:
 
Dan

If you are in the Solent area you are welcome to borrow and try out my Faithfull long arm riveter.

It is good up to 6.4mm monel and works with no real effort, even catching the mandrels.

If you're working on a boom that can move or up a mast (where you could move) then it could be easier than the lazy tongs since the pressure you exert on the arms is not against the workpiece...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-HDLAHR-Heavy-Duty-Long-Riveter/dp/B000X2ATYC/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1400497731&sr=8-4&keywords=faithfull+rivet#productDetails

I'm sure I paid £40 for mine many years ago...
 
Martin, that's a very kind offer, thank you. To be honest, I foresee several occasions in the near and less-near future when I'll be kicking myself if I don't get hold of a decent riveter, so I must bite the rivet and purchase, but thanks anyway.

Anybody know what M4, M5, M6 etc refers to, in relation to the sizes a riveter can cope with? I'm familiar with M4 machine-screws having 4mm diameter, but I'm used to mandrel gauges of 3.2mm, 4.8mm, 6.4mm...
 
dancrane said:
Martin, that's a very kind offer, thank you. To be honest, I foresee several occasions in the near and less-near future when I'll be kicking myself if I don't get hold of a decent riveter, so I must bite the rivet and purchase, but thanks anyway.

Anybody know what M4, M5, M6 etc refers to, in relation to the sizes a riveter can cope with? I'm familiar with M4 machine-screws having 4mm diameter, but I'm used to mandrel gauges of 3.2mm, 4.8mm, 6.4mm...
Click to expand...

The odd sizes such as 4.8mm are because they are actually imperial size rivets but the sizes are now being quoted in metric.

If the riveter's max size is larger than that in metric terms (e.g. M6) then it should cope fine.
 
Cheers Mr M. I just ordered one of the concertina-style which you recommended. I can't begin to imagine why I went round B&Q and Screwfix in the winter, instead of using Ebay.
 
Your experience is valuable, and should be taken on board.

However, many rivet pliers use the identical head-even long arm ones.

This was the case with the pair I converted. They had a good head which gripped and pulled the rivet through, it was only the mechanical advantage that was lacking.

The long arm ones I replaced them with differed only in size at the head end-they could take a 6mm rivet.

For professional use the expensive kit is essential.

For use once in a while cheaper hobby ones with the right mechanical advantage may be a less expensive option.

My long arm ones were thirty quidish and have only pulled about ten rivets.
 
rotrax said:
...many rivet pliers use the identical head...only the mechanical advantage is lacking. My long arm ones were thirty quidish and have only pulled about ten rivets.
Click to expand...

I can see that. Assuming I have better luck with the lazy-tongs I've bought, I will have spent about £60 to re-rivet two holes.

Is it recommended that I take the opportunity to drill-out the other shroud-base rivets, which aren't broken, on the basis that I can renew all at once?

That'll be a few more quids for a few more monel rivets. :rolleyes:
 
And so...

...I have my lazy-tongs riveter. And certainly it can cope easily with the small diameter aluminium rivets I bought in error, initially...

...but trying it on the 4.8mm aluminium rivets, of similar proportions to the pricey monel ones I bought for the spreader-base job, is less successful...

...the mandrel often snaps short, halfway along its length. The rivet hasn't fully deformed and the snapped mandrel is immovable from the half-pulled rivet.

Maybe the mandrel in the monel rivets is tougher and will pull out fully before snapping off? At £4 for a pack of 4 or 5, I don't feel inclined to waste one, trying it out.
 
Don't replace them unless they are obviously corroded / loose - if they look okay leave them alone.

The lazy tongue riveter needs to be adjusted for the size of rivet - not sure what yours is like but on mine there is a threaded ring near the nose which you twiddle. The instructions weren't very clear and it took me and one of the crew a couple of goes to figure out.
 
Thanks Mr Ming, I did notice the unspeakably illiterate instructions for use, on the box...not much help. I daresay my purchase is the same as yours.

The rivets I plan on replacing are not optional...two are actually missing, from either side of the spreader-base. So, I must find a way.

I can't pretend I've yet made any study of how the lazy-tongue riveter works. Clearly the pumping process grips & gradually tugs at the mandrel, but I can't see what adjustment to make, to enable the mandrel to be withdrawn without snapping on the way. Doubtless my failure of adjustment is the reason the mandrels are snapping prematurely.

I'm wondering whether the monel rivets will have monel mandrels? As the mandrel is effectively 'throw-away', it'd seem reasonable for the manufacturers to use something cheaper.

I'd like to believe that the cheap rivets, of which I bought a box of 700 from Screwfix for use with the one-handed riveter, are simply substandard, hence snapping because they're weak. Unlikely though, as the one-handed version still pulls the mandrel out fully. If anyone can advise how I ought to adjust the lazy-tongue to do the same, please contribute!
 
One possibility is that the thickness of the material is too much for the length of the body of the rivet. Perhaps a longer bodied rivet needed.

Hard to tell without seeing the back of the work.

Perhaps the lazy tongs have a harsh edge that is cutting into the mandrel too soon.

Isn't the mandrel usually punched through afterwards (to stop any possibilioty of rust forming in the hole).. and a small plastic cone shaped plug then hammered/pushed into the hole (to make it look good)..

Does your rivet gun have different sized end fittings that you change to suit each size of rivet you are using?
 
Thanks for these thoughts gentlemen. The fact that my little one-handed, pliers-type riveter is still working on the steel rivets, while the lazy-tongue type is breaking them without pulling the mandrel through, strongly suggests I have some learning to do about the adjustment.

The end-fitting is supplied in different sizes for different gauges of mandrel, so I suppose it's reasonable that the wrong selection, or wrong setting of adjustable parts, is the reason.
 
Funny when things you couldn't originally visualise any use for, eventually come good. SWMBO's parents gave us a fairly awful standard lamp which fell over a year or two ago, smashing the top. I discovered that the stand was hefty brass tubing, and stashed it absent-mindedly in the cupboard.

With two sections of this tubing, I've extended the arms of the little pliers-style riveter, creating a man-size bit of kit which pops the 4.8mm rivets with ease, without breaking the mandrel off short. Admittedly I haven't tried it on the monel variety, but I doubt the leverage will be a problem anymore...

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